Re: @Bharadwaj Velamakkani - All Indian captain equally bad abroa
by Bhardwaj Velamakanni on Mar 18, 2013 10:04 PM
That way Dhoni and Ganguly happen to be the only captains in recent times who managed to do well in NZ, SA (Last tour) and Aus (Under Ganguly)
Re: Re: @Bharadwaj Velamakkani - All Indian captain equally bad a
by Opinions on Mar 18, 2013 10:07 PM
Every Indian captain has managed to do decently well in NZ!! NZ is by no means a great team!! It is just one among the many AayaRams and GayaRams in cricket like India, Srilanks, Pakistan and West Indies!! They are not as hopeless as Zimbabwe or Bangladesh or Kenya or Chile or Peru or Nicaragua or Honolulu though!!
Re: Re: @Bharadwaj Velamakkani - All Indian captain equally bad a
by Dev on Mar 19, 2013 05:58 AM
sa and englaand used to be beaten always by oz in oz..recently they have beaten oz totally in oz.hope india does this. in a previous series india came very close to win..in last match had scored 700 ,then steve waugh i think denied match and series win by defensive play
Issue is not about winning or losing BUT about something called consistency!!
A good captain is one who performs pretty good IRRESPECTIVE of the strength of the team.
An extraordinary captain is one who turns defeats into victories (through strategies which Indians lack due to lack of BRAIN CELLS) and brings the best out of ordinary or even below-average players. Take the case of either StephenFleming or SteveWaugh or MarkTaylor.
No one glorified RickyPonting or CliveLloyd for their captaincy because their teams did the job for them!! With such teams, a captain is only needed for attending the toss!!
Re: @Venugopalan
by Bhardwaj Velamakanni on Mar 18, 2013 09:56 PM
Clive Lloyd didnt HAVE the team, he BUILT it and thats why he is still being praised as one of the greatest captains all-time.
Re: Re: @Venugopalan
by Opinions on Mar 18, 2013 09:58 PM
Clive Lloyd didn't have the team? Have you ever bothered to check out the statistics of West Indies before Lloyd came in?
Correction here.... if the mighty Aussies can struggle in indian pitches so can we in pitches abroad... its easier said than done blaming the captain... Are our pitches and discipline in selection and training the same compared to Aussies and SA?? I believe that is what needs to be addressed and done first...
Re: Analyse and comment
by Deshbhakth Hindu on Mar 18, 2013 09:43 PM
Sir, I agree. Aus, Eng and SA have won some series in India. When has India managed to win even a single series there (especially in SA and Aus) ?
Re: Re: Analyse and comment
by Deshbhakth Hindu on Mar 18, 2013 09:46 PM
You all call Dhoni great and give him complete credit. Tell me one series he has won in these 3 countries.
Re: Re: Re: Analyse and comment
by Bhardwaj Velamakanni on Mar 18, 2013 09:49 PM
How many Indian captains won the series abroad since India played their first test?
Re: Re: Re: Re: Analyse and comment
by Deshbhakth Hindu on Mar 18, 2013 09:54 PM
Not many, but we have won some against Eng, but not under so called great Dhoni. Recent one was under Dravid in Eng in 2006-07.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Analyse and comment
by Bhardwaj Velamakanni on Mar 18, 2013 09:58 PM
Right, so EVERY INDIAN CAPTAIN is equally bad when it comes to a series abroad.
Re: Analyse and comment
by Opinions on Mar 18, 2013 09:46 PM
Aussies DON'T struggle in India as much as the Indians struggle in Australia!! Most of the Indian defeats are either INNINGS-DEFEAT or a 10-WICKET LOSS!!
Re: Re: Analyse and comment
by Bhardwaj Velamakanni on Mar 18, 2013 09:53 PM
It doesnt really matter whether you and I accept it, but the fact remains that Dhoni and Ganguly have been the most successful captains that India has produced even though neither of them had good Test victories abroad.
Re: Re: Re: Analyse and comment
by Deshbhakth Hindu on Mar 18, 2013 09:55 PM
Now you are coming to the point. All this hulla about Captain Cool, etc is BS until he wins a series aborad, especially in the countries like Aus, SA and Eng.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Analyse and comment
by Bhardwaj Velamakanni on Mar 18, 2013 10:01 PM
He is Captain Cool for sure ... I havent seen him panicking even in the pressure situations. In fact thats good sign. That way even Dravid was Mr. Cool. The major difference here is the victories that Dhoni had in the shorter formats of the game which carried him over its shoulders even in the test matches.
Re: @Deshbhakt Hindu
by Deshbhakth Hindu on Mar 18, 2013 09:30 PM
Absolutely. I really think India flourished more under Saurav than anybody else. Dhoni only reaped the benefits of the good work done by these seniors.
Re: Re: @Deshbhakt Hindu
by Deshbhakth Hindu on Mar 18, 2013 09:32 PM
Actually, Dhoni is made so big because the media wanted a small town icon from the North Indian states and Dhoni fitted perfectly for the role. Dhoni is more of a media creation than real substance.
Re: Re: Re: @Deshbhakt Hindu
by Venugopalan on Mar 18, 2013 09:36 PM
you are finished criticising dhoni and praising dada ganguly /then how come KKR lead by ganguly dada could not accomplish in IPL resulting dadas ouster..dhoni is good because he is professional and cool.. ganguly is a fighter no doubt not not cool enough.
Re: Re: Re: Re: @Deshbhakt Hindu
by Deshbhakth Hindu on Mar 18, 2013 09:39 PM
KKR happened when Dada was not playing regularly and had nearly retired from cricket. What can you expect ?
Re: Re: Re: Re: @Deshbhakt Hindu
by Opinions on Mar 18, 2013 09:41 PM
Issue is not about winning or losing BUT about something called consistency!!
A good captain is one who performs pretty good IRRESPECTIVE of the strength of the team.
An extraordinary captain is one who turns defeats into victories (through strategies which Indians lack due to lack of BRAIN CELLS) and brings the best out of ordinary or even below-average players. Take the case of either StephenFleming or SteveWaugh or MarkTaylor.
No one glorified RickyPonting or CliveLloyd for their captaincy because their teams did the job for them!! With such teams, a captain is only needed for attending the toss!!
Re: Re: Re: @Deshbhakt Hindu
by Opinions on Mar 18, 2013 09:37 PM
He was initially good as a master-blaster. But as time passed, he became both a hopeless batsman and an ever worser wicketKeeper with looseFingers!
The only thing left for him to stay in the team was LUCK to stay as a captain and he has that in plenty!!
Re: Re: @Deshbhakt Hindu
by Sunil Vaidya on Mar 18, 2013 10:38 PM
what exactly is flourishing according to you deshbhakth hindu, that we did not win in aus sa etc. under saurav is flourishing? winning mostly against bd and zim aborad is flourishing? not winning wc is flourishing? winning almost no finals and reaching many finals is flourishing?
Re: Re: Re: @Deshbhakt Hindu
by Sunil Vaidya on Mar 18, 2013 10:39 PM
and anyway it was a team that azhar built that ganguly inherited...it was azhar who built the successful team consisting of sachin dravid laxman ganguly himself kumble bhajji etc. and ganguly just reaped the benefits of it...:)
Re: Re: Re: Re: @Deshbhakt Hindu
by Sunil Vaidya on Mar 18, 2013 10:40 PM
it was dhoni who built teams and won laurels for india...winning T20 wc in SA with newcomers...winning triseries in aus when aus were officially no. with very few seniors...no ganguly no laxman no dravid only sehwag for a few matches and sachin who was a total failure in league matches almost helping us to get knocked out of best of 3 finals...
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: @Deshbhakt Hindu
by Sunil Vaidya on Mar 18, 2013 10:42 PM
it was dhoni who really built the team and made indian no 1 in all formats of the game at some point of time...won t20 wc abroad, odi wc, tri series abroad when aus were officially no 1 were at full strength and playing at home...
it was dhoni who built the team of pujara, kohli, dhawan, praveen, bhuvaneshwar, ashwin, ojha, jadeja, and others.
Re: Re: @Deshbhakt Hindu
by Deshbhakth Hindu on Mar 18, 2013 09:40 PM
Maybe this team is not as good, but they have beaten us in our den also sometimes. On the other hand India has never won there.
Re: @Deshbhakt Hindu
by Sunil Vaidya on Mar 18, 2013 10:26 PM
Onions, yes there used to something called DRAWS when saurav or dravid led....but my dear tell me what is the point of drawing in india???
Re: @Deshbhakt Hindu
by deepanshu bagati on Mar 19, 2013 02:02 PM
atleast there used to be performing players like in form sachin sehwag and gautam and big guns like anil kumble harbhajan dravid laxman and gangnly himsel.dhonis team only has yougsters ,and not in form sehwag sachin and gauti
Re: Re: @Deshbhakt Hindu
by Sunil Vaidya on Mar 20, 2013 05:25 AM
still we have won more matches with the youngsters than the seniors...
just take a look at how many tests and odis these seniors like sachin dravid laxman ganguly sehwag kumble bhajji have played and in how matches india won and in how many matches india lost...
then check the records of new generation players like kohli, pujara, raina, gambhir, praveen, dhoni, ashwin, ojha, jadeja, ishant, bhuvanesh kumar, and others ...and see how many tests and odis they have played and how many of them india won and how many india lost...