Always the statistics does not tell the truth. The main difference between the captioned Captains is the agression, taking spot decisions etc. In this case Ganguly was in such a height where in whole life Dhoni can not reach. He has no brain at all. He is only dependent on his team mate's success.
Dhoni's cricket is not a fighting and competitive one. He does too much politics, has scan regards for any one - be it his seniors, or pitch curators, or any one.
His world cup win was dull,scripted and devoid of any sporting thril (remember aussies at 1999 world cup, or even india at 1983). (except for the fact it was after a long long time) Those who deny this are simply fooling themselves...
He can never back his team to fight overseas teams on green tops and harsh conditions. He can only do politics, and play only in conducive conditions - why even now he is shamelessly demanding rank turners. Indian cricket has hit a new low.
Although Dhoni is reaching a mile stone to overcome the Captaincy win/loss record the comparison with Dada will sure make Dada a better captain.
Dada's has more impressive overseas wins but when we look at history the decade by decade shows that the quality of players have improved with more athletic bowlers, fielders and batting with higher SRs.
70s < 5 Test wins 80s < 10 Test wins 90s < 14 Test wins 2000s < 45 Test wins
The dramatic jump Ganguly and Dhoni enjoyed has been because of superior players coming out of the system.
One change that Ganguly enforced was the 2-2 split in India, and since Bhajji and Kumble were excellent spinners he could take the risk with Zaheer and Sreesanth.
Then in comes Gambhir to join Shewag and Ishant to join Zaheer, India suddenly turned into a quality side where it was more balanced.
It was pivotal that Ganguly went with a 2-2 split since Kumble and Dravid still could not turn it around even when the same quality players.
Dhoni resorting to a triple spin attack is a step backwards for Test cricket in general but his main strengths are ODIs and T20 where he will retain his captaincy for Tests as well since the selectors dont want different captains for different formats.
I think in this debate, Ganguly gets slight edge in being a better Test captain than Dhoni who managed a 92 not out in Indian's WC win.
Re: Ganguly and Dhoni enjoyed benefits of quality players.
by Sunil Vaidya on Dec 05, 2012 08:07 AM
thanks bcci for the strong system for upcoming players and foreign coaches...it is really from 2000 onwards that we became a force in cricket in all formats...and the last decade saw foreign coaches for the first time in india despite stiff opposition from traditionalists like bedi, gavaskar etc. who opposed the concept tooth and nail and fought for indian coaches...
the bcci has done plenty for the game of cricket local and international in the last 10 years since it became powerful...
just take a look at how good ganguly played when he was captain and lead from the front...also see how good his contribution was in india's test wins...can dhoni ever come close?
ganguly-(when he was a captain) 49 tests 75 innings 7 not out 2561 runs 144 highest 37.66 average 100s-5 50s-13
dhoni-(when he was a captain) 41 tests 64 8 not out innings 2310 runs 144 highest 41.25 average 100s-4 50s-17
ganguly-(contribution in tests won by india) 37 tests 58 innings 9 not out 2284 runs 136 highest 46.61 average 100s-4 50s-14 dhoni-(contribution in tests won by india)29 tests 41 innings 7 not out 1641 runs 144 highest 48.26 average 100s-3 50s-12
Majority of Dhoni's wins have come playing in the sub-continent. I hardly remember India winning comprehensively under Dhoni overseas. Also, Dhoni's individual performance is no way near to Ganguly's.
Re: Sourav has better Oversas record
by Sunil Vaidya on Dec 04, 2012 11:21 PM
majority of dada's wins have come playing in the sub-continent...i hardly remeber india winning comprehensively under dada overseas...how many series has dada won against teams like aus, eng sa etc.? also, dada's individual performance is no way near dhoni's///
Re: Re: Sourav has better Oversas record
by subramaniam srivatsa on Dec 05, 2012 03:46 PM
the same question is put to you:.how many series has dhoni won overseas against teams like aus, eng sa etc
Re: Sourav has better Oversas record
by SIMPLE on Dec 12, 2012 12:39 PM
Ganguly registered that we can also win the overseas matches. It is only Ganguly. There is nobody like Ganguly, neither in past nor at present. Future? I don't know. Time will say.
Re: DADA & Dhoni
by sreejit steve on Dec 04, 2012 05:45 PM
thats a foolish misconception..ur dada was captain when India was blessed with best batsmen of the world, in top form..sachin, laxman, dravid and ganguly himself..when dhoni assumed captaincy, these top batsman lost much of their form and were on verge of retirement..
Re: Re: DADA & Dhoni
by usha sundaram on Dec 04, 2012 07:04 PM
Nobody put a gun on Dhoni's head to retain players who lost form and verge of retirement to be included in the team.
Re: Re: Re: DADA & Dhoni
by Charu Bhagat on Dec 04, 2012 07:33 PM
I agree that Dada seeded the trees and were yuvraj about to taste the fruits of success (becoming No.1)and got hitesh retired without hitesh yuvraj harvesting the riped fruits
Re: Re: DADA & Dhoni
by Shilok Mukherjee on Dec 04, 2012 11:04 PM
In my openion Dhoni is not supposed to get chance in playeng eleven of Indian Test squad and Captain of Test team - no way. Test captain required brain !!!
Re: Re: DADA & Dhoni
by SIMPLE on Dec 12, 2012 12:45 PM
Don't forget that at that time there was nobody to be a Captain. Actually by making him Captain the then BCCI authority tried to axe him out of the Team by showing his inability as a Cricketer. But ganguly is something else, so don't make such rubbish comment on this Great Captain.
Re: DADA & Dhoni
by Sunil Vaidya on Dec 04, 2012 11:19 PM
Azhar seeded the trees and were about to taste the fruit of success (beocming no. 1) and got retired without harvesting the riped fruits...
ganguly got the taste of riped fruits without investing anything...!!!
it was azhar who was india' first really successful captain and created a great team with the likes of ganguly, sachin, dravid laxman kumble bhajji....
while dada got azhar's team readymade .....without doing anything!
Re: Re: DADA & Dhoni
by subramaniam srivatsa on Dec 05, 2012 04:07 PM
Sourav nurtured players like Viru, Irfan Pathan, Zaheer, Harbhajan. Y we even had Balaji, Nehra, many others who did well. When dada was there, any one would perform - he backed them. It was a young team. His trust in the seniors also made them perform. Unlike dhoni who does nothing but politics, create divids and never backs any one to perform. He is worst thing for indian cricket
Re: Re: Re: DADA & Dhoni
by Sunil Vaidya on Dec 05, 2012 06:03 PM
dhoni nurtured players like kohli, raina, pujara, ishant, praveen kumar, ojha, ashwin etc. everybody performed under dhoni and we won T20 wc odi wc no. 1 in tests and maintained it for 2 years (Eventhough no dada(very few) and kumble(zero tests under dhoni) in the tests)
dhoni's trust in seniors and juniors meant that both genertion players looked up to him...he even backed players supposedly brought in dada like bhajji, yuvraj, sehwag and it is with dhoni that they performed better than the so called best captain dada...dada just brought in politics and divides and all his wins also mostly came in easy conditions adn weaker oppositions like bd and zim very few wins against eng sa aus...dada is nothing when compared with dhoni...
Re: Re: Re: Re: DADA & Dhoni
by Spot On on Dec 05, 2012 08:09 PM
Sunil Vaidya.. this debate will go on that who is better captain. Let us concentrate on few other things: When Dada's form was poor.. he had been axed from team, he proved in domestic, came back and became Man of the Series in SA. But, Sreenivasan who is sleeping with Sakshi periodically, will not remove Dhoni. Rather you can see more Chennai Super Kings player in team like Jadeja.. whereas Tiwari, Rahane, Yusuf or Irfans will sit out. How many Bengal player Dada brought in Indian Team? Dhoni even play politics against players who like Dada, like Sehwag, Gambhir, Bhajji.. Have you seen the Mumbai test, where Harbhajan brought into attack after 24 overs even Dhoni knew that he is the best bet till ball bounces.
When Sourav Ganguly took charges of captain ship India was in 8th position in test ranking. Before that, years after years India used to hold 7th,8th... positions only. When Sourav took charges gradually ranking was becoming higher up and when he left the captain ship India's ranking was 2nd. But when Dhoni took the charge the captainship India was in 2nd position and now they are in 4th position though once India became no.1 under his captain ship
Let Dhoni contribute with bat first which is the main priority rather than looking for records first. Ofcourse records will come but what is the use of a player if he regulary fails to contribute runs for the team.. Shame!
Re: Re: Absurd
by MILDEN DEN on Dec 04, 2012 03:50 PM
so ... if the opponent were too good that does not mean our team and the players have to succumb to them .. Give a fight.. The thing is that they will even loose to bangladesh now the way they play.. wht u got to say in that?
Re: Re: Absurd
by Sunil Vaidya on Dec 04, 2012 11:15 PM
very well said, ganguly faced the likes of BD and zim and had many test wins against these countries? how many wins does dhoni have against bd and zim?
ganguly won 3 tests against aus and lost 2...while dhoni has only 4 wins out of 4 tests against australia...not enough ...i dont remember ganguly winning against sa...and dhoni has only played twice against sa and only drew those series...one at home and one in sa...
Re: Re: Re: Absurd
by Bijit Baruah on Dec 05, 2012 12:46 AM
get ur facts right dhoni lost 4 in aus and 4 in eng ganguly has won in SA if u remember the mike dennes incident of ball tampering and half the team was suspended wake up bro its not 1857
Re: Re: Re: Re: Absurd
by Sunil Vaidya on Dec 05, 2012 06:01 AM
sorry about being a little ambiguous in my message yes dhoni lost 3 tests in aus out of 4 (the 4th loss captain was sehwag because dhoni was handed a one test ban for slow overrates and missed adelaide test) and in india dhoni won 4 out of 4 tests against ponting's australia...
