Complacency -- cause for Team India's downfall

Re: kris srikant is maskhara by Aseem Mallick on Aug 17, 2011 08:50 PM BCCI should change certain things. 1-One who qualifies for selector,should have played 50 tests. 2-Give chance to player like Rohit,Kohili. 3-Drop Raina,Yuvraj from test,as they are not fit for the longer version. 4-Bring back Parthiv Patel. 5-Good spiner 6-Drop Ishant,Sreesanth.    Forward   |   Report abuse

Re: The GREAT INDIAN MEDIA LIE called M S D by Sunil Vaidya on Aug 17, 2011 09:33 AM ok rajkamal dubey, i got it what you want to say...but why put it this way...any one would think that you are trying to criticise dhoni... speak it straight...u want to say that all the wins we had under dhoni was because of other 10 players and dhoni should not be blamed for that... u want to say that all the losses we had under dhoni including this series is because of other 10 players and dhoni is not to be blamed for that... understood...but why post it in such a roundabout way?    Forward   |   Report abuse
Re: Re: The GREAT INDIAN MEDIA LIE called M S D by Ratikant Sahoo on Aug 17, 2011 09:55 AM Sunil Vaidya! I think u could not get rajkamal dubey point! The WC that we won is not because of Captaincy! That is 100% true! India was in Test Ranking No.1 not because of Captaincy! That is also 100% true! India was some how in 2nd or 3rd in One day ranking, not because of Captaincy! That is also 100% true! And now we are losing the test no.1 ranking not because of Captaincy! That is 100% true! But do u see any place where as a captain Dhoni has given a big contribution? He is just use-less. That is also 100% true!    Forward   |   Report abuse
Re: Re: Re: The GREAT INDIAN MEDIA LIE called M S D by Sunil Vaidya on Aug 17, 2011 01:57 PM ratikant and dubey you both are wrong...That is 100% true!...    Forward   |   Report abuse
Re: Re: Re: The GREAT INDIAN MEDIA LIE called M S D by rajkamal dubey on Aug 17, 2011 10:46 AM Thanks Mr. Sahoo for explaining to Vaidyaji...that's correct and very precise...whether Dhoni is in the team or out of it, it does not make a lot of difference....as the media would have us believe that we were winning all those matches because of Dhoni being "Cooooool" (sic)    Forward   |   Report abuse
Re: Re: Re: Re: The GREAT INDIAN MEDIA LIE called M S D by Sunil Vaidya on Aug 17, 2011 02:12 PM dubey if indeed dhoni does not make any difference to the indian team the results he is acieveing should have been achieved under the captains before him who also had more or less the same team. but ganguly, dravid and kumble who all had decent runs as captains did not achieve so many things. sachin himself has said that dhoni is the best captain he played under. ganguly has agreed that dhoni is better captain than him. praveen kumar called him obama of indian cricket. all the seniors and juniors in his team love and admire him. yuvraj who was instrumental in india winning the world cup has said dhoni takes to pressure like fish to water meaning that dhoni is not afraid of pressure and has excelled in handling pressure situations..dubey sahoo bash dhoni if you want but remember that sachin ganguly and dhoni's team mates dont agree with your views....    Forward   |   Report abuse
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The GREAT INDIAN MEDIA LIE called M S D by Ratikant Sahoo on Aug 17, 2011 02:41 PM Do you mean to say? If Dhoni were the captain of Kenya Team then Kenya would have won the 2011 WC? If not then your justification is 100% wrong? Forward   |   Report abuse
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The GREAT INDIAN MEDIA LIE called M S D by rajkamal dubey on Aug 17, 2011 02:52 PM Vaidya....first of all, the other Indian captains did not have so much talent at their disposal as Dhoni has...Also, look at the other external factors helping India in recent years...matches played mostly on flat pitches in the subcontinent, weaker opposition, poor quality of attack, decline of Australia etc... secondly, on very very few occassions has the team won due to Dhoni or dhoni had anything worthwhile to contribute....show me a match where OIndia won and i will give you a reason other than dhoni for which india won lastly, no one gfrom the current indian team can publicly criticize another team-mate...please be intelligent enough to understand that...as for other people, it's because of the hype...it's kind of a style-statement , the latest fad, the in-thing to say that Dhoni is coool and this and that....kind of a peer pressure built on these people who has to say the same thing the media has hyped up over time...it's like blindly following a propaganda...that's what pisses yo off big time Lastly, just because someone has said something, be it sachin or whoever you dont have to believe that...dont you have your own mind to think things out ????...or you too are useless with your mind just as dhonbee is with his bat ????    Forward   |   Report abuse
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The GREAT INDIAN MEDIA LIE called M S D by Sunil Vaidya on Aug 17, 2011 08:38 PM rajkamal dubey, when you say that other indian captains did not have so much talent at their disposal as dhoni has what exactly do you mean? what did they do not have that dhoni has? who and what has made the difference? you say that no one from current indian team will publicly criticise another team mate. but what you say may be understandable in case of yuvraj and praveen kumar. but tell me what pressure does kapil dev has? he has always admired dhoni for taking india to no. 1 position and leading india to world cup wins in T20 and odi. he has openly defended dhoni many times and said dhoni is his hero. what pressure does sachin has to say that dhoni is the BEST captain under whom he played? he could have easily said that dhoni was AMONG the best he played under or that he is also good. he specifically mentioned that on his own and under nobody's pressure. nobody had asked him whether dhoni is the best or not. and what about ganguly supposedly the best indian captain according to many fans here and he also has won the most no. of tests among all the captains as yet (thogh dhoni is certainly looking set to break that record) under what pressure do you think ganguly said that dhoni is the best captain? and as to dhoni's contribtion tell me which other wicket-keeper batsman in the history of indian cricket has better record in batting or wicket-keeping than dhoni both in tests and odis. which other wicket keeper is there currently who is better than him?    Forward   |   Report abuse
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The GREAT INDIAN MEDIA LIE called M S by Sunil Vaidya on Aug 17, 2011 08:58 PM you tried to claim that dhoni's record looks good because of his many not outs. i removed your misunderstanding showing that dhoni has not only better averaage but also better aggregate. sachin required 169 innings to make 6000 odi runs. and he opened the innings many times during those 169 innings. dhoni made a MOM award winning innings in finals of 2011 odi world cup and helped india win the cup. he made 91 runs in 78 balls. like i said he knows when to play fast and when to play slow and then increase the tempo. when there is need to play fast and when it is ok not to play so fast. you are completely silent about that. tell me if some player takes LESS no. of innings than somebody who is supposedly world's best player to complete 6000 odi runs (and that is a lot of runs i am sure you will agree) then it certainly shows where dhoni stands as a odi batsman in relation to sachin. like i told you he also was MOM against a test vs australia captained by ponting in which he made 92 and 68 not out. but of course even after so many awesome innings dhoni plays under pressure/crisis situation and wins the game for india you will never accept him as a good batsman. dont get fooled by his ''ugly'' technique. while his technique may be unorthodox it is certainly effective and he puts a price on his wicket. he has a never-say-die attitude and continues to fight till the end.    Forward   |   Report abuse
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The GREAT INDIAN MEDIA LIE called by Sunil Vaidya on Aug 17, 2011 09:01 PM dhoni has played 45 test innings as captain and has scored 3 100s and 14 50s i.e that just over 2.5 innings per score of 50 plus (17 50 plus scores in 45 innings as a captain). that is as good as any great test batsman. rajkamal dubey, you may have not noticed it but since becoming captain dhoni's performance as a batsman has IMPROVED in both tests and odis and not gone down!    Forward   |   Report abuse
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The GREAT INDIAN MEDIA LIE ca by Sunil Vaidya on Aug 18, 2011 09:17 AM Pseudo: Unfortunately ALL our batsmen are responsible for our debacle in current series vs england. ALL of our batsmen including sachin and dhoni are having a poor series. It does not happen this way usually. at least 2-3 if not 4-5 batsmen play everytime. unfortunately this time either only one or nobody performed well... I knew with constant tours, players playing all the time with ipl, world cup and so many tours and playing at home there was going be a burnout eventually. our players do seem to be physically and mentally exhausted. many of them had asked for rest but their requests were turned down many times. most of them got rest only if they were injured or ill. at other times they had to play. with such background what has happened was going to happen sooner or later,i knew that. it is unfortunate that it had to happen in this particular series. and one of most awaited series is turning out thus. england are playing at their peak and all their players are playing at their best and are fit and if there is some niggle they can get replacement anytime since it is being played in england. unfortunately our main batsmen and bowlers are either unfit or mentally and physically tired. if we were at our best strength with gambhir, sehwag, bhajji, zaheer at their fittest best this would have been a very good series between 2 best sides at the moment playing with their best strength...unfortunately this was not to be... Forward   |   Report abuse
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The GREAT INDIAN MEDIA LIE ca by rajkamal dubey on Aug 18, 2011 10:34 AM Mr. Vaidya...You can also twist and fake statistics to prove your case...whatever figures you quote about dhoni's batting, my answer is he is NO GOOD NOW (he may have been in 2004-5 but not now), he should be out....patel, karthick may have lower averages but they are better than dhoni ON CURRENT FORM Regarding captaincy...it's not at all important...the importance is highly over-rated....any of the other players can captain this team...and if you talk about skills, the West indies series totally exposed the so-called cooool captain dhoni...he is an idiot and he is one of the poorest captain ever riding on pure luck Just like dhoni , fans like you will take pride in the fact that we won the series...(1-0) by the skin of our teeth, a side ranked lower than bangladesh whom any side would have thrashed 3-0....and now, look at the way india is losing to england now...but i know just like the corrupt media, you will quote a few inflated batting statistics of matches 3 years ago on the basis of which you expect dhoni to play for another 30 years... i didn't want to write a long mail because i am sure you will not understand or pretend not to understand or find an irrational argument to make which does not make any sense or which is true but is not related to the argument being made these are called rhetorics and a politician's fallacious arguments...i dont want to waste my time by replying to those...so these are my last words on this issue. Forward   |   Report abuse
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The GREAT INDIAN MEDIA LIE ca by rajkamal dubey on Aug 18, 2011 10:38 AM Vaidya...regarding Sachin and kenya winning the world cup...let me tell you this...there will be 6 other Kenyan batsman in the team apart from sachin....but there is only one captain...so here also, your logic is on very stupid ground Forward   |   Report abuse
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The GREAT INDIAN MEDIA LIE ca by rajkamal dubey on Aug 18, 2011 10:56 AM remember the context and the usefulness of the innings...i told you once...if you score 20 not out in 3 innings and 10 in one, you'll have an average of 70...dhoni mostly had scores like 30 not out in 57 balls which inflated his average...when you quote figures like that, without the context, they lie to you...they are like the politicians tool...and just like politicians you also manipulate figures to make a false statement sound like a truth...only if you closely interpret these figures you would know that Dhoni is a poor, undeserving batsman riding on pure luck and nothing else Forward   |   Report abuse
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The GREAT INDIAN MEDIA LIE called by Sunil Vaidya on Aug 18, 2011 09:18 AM Pseudo: but i am sure we will perform much better than this in the coming odi series. it is a complete different format and with result coming in only 7-8 hours adn not spread over 5 days...:)    Forward   |   Report abuse
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The GREAT INDIAN MEDIA LIE ca by rajkamal dubey on Aug 18, 2011 10:36 AM vaidya, you can also suggest the idea of 1 or 2 over matches...i guess dhoni, the great batsman that he is, will do well in those Forward   |   Report abuse
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The GREAT INDIAN MEDIA LIE called by rajkamal dubey on Aug 18, 2011 10:57 AM remember the context and the usefulness of the innings...i told you once...if you score 20 not out in 3 innings and 10 in one, you'll have an average of 70...dhoni mostly had scores like 30 not out in 57 balls which inflated his average...when you quote figures like that, without the context, they lie to you...they are like the politicians tool...and just like politicians you also manipulate figures to make a false statement sound like a truth...only if you closely interpret these figures you would know that Dhoni is a poor, undeserving batsman riding on pure luck and nothing else    Forward   |   Report abuse
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The GREAT INDIAN MEDIA LIE called M S by rajkamal dubey on Aug 18, 2011 10:58 AM remember the context and the usefulness of the innings...i told you once...if you score 20 not out in 3 innings and 10 in one, you'll have an average of 70...dhoni mostly had scores like 30 not out in 57 balls which inflated his average...when you quote figures like that, without the context, they lie to you...they are like the politicians tool...and just like politicians you also manipulate figures to make a false statement sound like a truth...only if you closely interpret these figures you would know that Dhoni is a poor, undeserving batsman riding on pure luck and nothing else    Forward   |   Report abuse
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The GREAT INDIAN MEDIA LIE called M S by rajkamal dubey on Aug 18, 2011 11:00 AM remember the context and the usefulness of the innings...i told you once...if you score 20 not out in 3 innings and 10 in one, you'll have an average of 70...dhoni mostly had scores like 30 not out in 57 balls which inflated his average...when you quote figures like that, without the context, they lie to you...they are like the politicians tool...and just like politicians you also manipulate figures to make a false statement sound like a truth...only if you closely interpret these figures you would know that Dhoni is a poor, undeserving batsman riding on pure luck and nothing else    Forward   |   Report abuse
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The GREAT INDIAN MEDIA LIE called by rajkamal dubey on Aug 18, 2011 11:16 AM And Vaidya...i dont think you got my point about peer pressure...so i am explaining again...but i know that you will pretend not to understand or give an example which is un-connected when a LIE is repeated very frequently, it starts sounding like the truth...and it takes courage to say something against that which crazy, brainwashed people believe in as the gospel truth....that's why most commentators, intelligent people who know the real truth are silent and refuse to take an independent stand on this...they only repeat the media created lie about cool dhoni and great dhoni etc. Apart from that they are also being paid by these corporates...the same corporates who are paying the media and have invested huge amounts on Dhoni to create the hype around a pseudo-role model for the youth around which they can sell their goods and products to a dumb society    Forward   |   Report abuse
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The GREAT INDIAN MEDIA LIE ca by mukund vaidya on Aug 18, 2011 02:19 PM Dubeyji you are trying to claim that dhoni may have been good in 2004-5 but not now. dubeyji i am not giving his scores made in those years. he was NOT the captain at that time. he became captain in 2007. and the 17 50 plus scores that he made in 45 test innings as a captain came from 2007 to uptil now. so as you see i am also talking of his CURRENT FORM not his form of 2004-5. BTW dubeyji his test record at that time was actually LESSER (both average and aggregate) than what it became post 2007.i fail to understand on what grounds you feel that parthiv and karthick are better than dhoni on CURRENT FORM...any stats in support of that claim? you are trying to claim that dhoni scores something like not out 20 in 3 innnings and not out 10 in fourth innings and has average of 70 runs. if you really believe that to be true dubeyji that means he makes about 70 runs in 4 innings with about the same average. tell me dubeyji in that case how can dhoni score MORE than sachin in AGGREGATE runs? if what you say is true and YET sachin requires 3 innings MORE than dhoni to score 6000 runs then sachin also scores similarly like he also makes 15 runs in 3 innings though he may be out and 10 runs in 4th innings this time not out. because in no other way can dhoni score MORE runs than sachin in LESS no. of innings. if dhoni scores are 20 not out 20 not out 20 not out and 10 not out then sachin scores must be 20 out, 15 out 20 out and 10 not out... Forward   |   Report abuse
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The GREAT INDIAN MEDIA LIE ca by mukund vaidya on Aug 18, 2011 03:24 PM rajkamal dubey, i agree with you completely that when a LIE is repeated very frequently, it starts sounding like the truth...and it takes courage to say something against that which crazy, brainwashed people believe in as the gospel truth...but that LIE is SACHIN and NOT dhoni...and i am fighting that sachin myth/lie... Forward   |   Report abuse
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The GREAT INDIAN MEDIA LIE ca by rajkamal dubey on Aug 18, 2011 11:17 AM Mr. Vaidya...You can also twist and fake statistics to prove your case...whatever figures you quote about dhoni's batting, my answer is he is NO GOOD NOW (he may have been in 2004-5 but not now), he should be out....patel, karthick may have lower averages but they are better than dhoni ON CURRENT FORM Regarding captaincy...it's not at all important...the importance is highly over-rated....any of the other players can captain this team...and if you talk about skills, the West indies series totally exposed the so-called cooool captain dhoni...he is an idiot and he is one of the poorest captain ever riding on pure luck Just like dhoni , fans like you will take pride in the fact that we won the series...(1-0) by the skin of our teeth, a side ranked lower than bangladesh whom any side would have thrashed 3-0....and now, look at the way india is losing to england now...but i know just like the corrupt media, you will quote a few inflated batting statistics of matches 3 years ago on the basis of which you expect dhoni to play for another 30 years... i didn't want to write a long mail because i am sure you will not understand or pretend not to understand or find an irrational argument to make which does not make any sense or which is true but is not related to the argument being made these are called rhetorics and a politician's fallacious arguments...i dont want to waste my time by replying to those...so these are my last words on this issue. Forward   |   Report abuse
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The GREAT INDIAN MEDIA LIE called M S D by rajkamal dubey on Aug 17, 2011 02:52 PM Vaidya....first of all, the other Indian captains did not have so much talent at their disposal as Dhoni has...Also, look at the other external factors helping India in recent years...matches played mostly on flat pitches in the subcontinent, weaker opposition, poor quality of attack, decline of Australia etc... secondly, on very very few occassions has the team won due to Dhoni or dhoni had anything worthwhile to contribute....show me a match where OIndia won and i will give you a reason other than dhoni for which india won lastly, no one gfrom the current indian team can publicly criticize another team-mate...please be intelligent enough to understand that...as for other people, it's because of the hype...it's kind of a style-statement , the latest fad, the in-thing to say that Dhoni is coool and this and that....kind of a peer pressure built on these people who has to say the same thing the media has hyped up over time...it's like blindly following a propaganda...that's what pisses yo off big time Lastly, just because someone has said something, be it sachin or whoever you dont have to believe that...dont you have your own mind to think things out ????...or you too are useless with your mind just as dhonbee is with his bat ???? Forward   |   Report abuse
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The GREAT INDIAN MEDIA LIE called M S D by Sunil Vaidya on Aug 17, 2011 08:01 PM dubey i have mind of my own. but since you people talk about the opinion of experts or legends of the game i did the same. sahoo, do you mean to say that if sachin was in kenya team kenya would have won 2011 odi world? if not then your justificatioin that sachin is the best player in india or the world is 100% wrong! Forward   |   Report abuse
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The GREAT INDIAN MEDIA LIE called M S D by Against Pseudos on Aug 18, 2011 06:26 AM Sunil Vaidya: ;-)... so you are saying that Sachin has no role to play in our current debacle in England? :) Forward   |   Report abuse

Re: Re: remove dhoni as capt. by vinay on Aug 17, 2011 11:18 AM coz dhoni is much hyped capt n has become arrogant in giving excuses for each n every defeat. needs another capt in viru.    Forward   |   Report abuse

Re: remove dhoni as capt. by Ratikant Sahoo on Aug 17, 2011 08:59 AM Right! I have never ever seen a confident performance from India when they are out-side India. They are fit for Road/Street Cricket. All money oriented. They need money, that's all. Few are very much fond of playing IPL rather than International. This justifies how they are care about the country. They should be thrown out from Cricket. We would be happy, seeing the players playing for country even though we lost, rather seeing the selfish players who play just to earn money!    Forward   |   Report abuse
Re: remove dhoni as capt. by D S on Aug 17, 2011 09:08 AM what has dhoni to do with bad selection, YES INDIA NEEDS TO ROTATE THE CAPTAIN, NO DOUBT ABOUT. dhoni was lone fighter against confident angrez bowling to hit them for sixers.    Forward   |   Report abuse
Re: Re: remove dhoni as capt. by Ratikant Sahoo on Aug 17, 2011 09:31 AM yeah! At that situation, if you were there you could have hit the sixes. Because that time he knew, we were going to lose the match and every single run from him was useless. What remained that time is to play without caring about lose or gain. That is how Bhaji got success and maybe some extend few bowlers in past. If Dhoni would have little care, the 2nd match was the right situation where he needed to perform. But what he did is, what he is known for!    Forward   |   Report abuse
Re: remove dhoni as capt. by FINE POINT -MAMBAKKAM on Aug 17, 2011 10:11 AM sir, why remove dhoni as captain. what are the others doing. they should also perform in fast tracks. also indians are playing too much cricket. they are not money minded.    Forward   |   Report abuse

Re: Dhoni led the downfall by Shrikanth Tantry on Aug 17, 2011 06:04 AM What you told is right. Dhoni, as a captain had a great responsibility to play sensibly in that test. What a reckless attittude that was? I think it's not Dhoni's captaincy or luck, rather it's Gary Kirsten's coaching & luck that made India No.1 in tests as well as World Champions. Kirsten gone, India alone!    Forward   |   Report abuse
Re: Re: Dhoni led the downfall by Ratikant Sahoo on Aug 17, 2011 09:05 AM These players are mentally sick. They are just playing to make money. When India lost, I feel really so sad, and those foolish cricketer, what they do is; they just try to lose the match 1 or 2 days before, so that they can enjoy there. What an Idea Sir ji!    Forward   |   Report abuse
Re: Dhoni led the downfall by Rivka Mishra on Aug 17, 2011 10:20 PM Dhoni wasn't the only one who played an irresponsible shot. Laxman got out pulling the ball 3 times. Mukund is far too inexperienced. Tendulkar played a loose shot as well, and Raina is absolutely pathetic against short-pitched bowling. Not to mention Sreesanth's horrible bowling to Stuart Broad. In short, it's not that England didn't play well. But they were just sticking to basics, and India threw the 2nd test match away.    Forward   |   Report abuse

Re: Srikanth created this whole mess by selecting Tamil Nadu play by vinay on Aug 17, 2011 02:14 AM i partly agree abt karthik    Forward   |   Report abuse