The entire controversy seems to be now down and out with the ouster of Bucknor. But the real question lies is WHETHER IS THE MATTER REALLY JUSTIFIED OR NOT?Now lets take the matter what had happened on the ground. It was right that dravid was not out inspite the ball being miles away from the bat, but bucknor did not either consult the third umpire nor the FEILDING CAPTAIN, but it was benson who did this by consulting the player instead of the square leg umpire or third umpire which is more serious offence than what bucknor had done but its still he had to face the axe is it because bucknor is a BLACK AND BENSON IS WHITE and the game seems to be dominated the whites inspite some blacks are representing some countries across the cricket playing countries.I think its benson not bucknor should have faced the axe. Australia seems to have such stands against the oppressed class like srilankans{muralitharan and Harbhajan singh}i think its time now to retain the world champions to reign more in the game rather than HOGGing and trying to assert supremacy in all other manners.
Umpire means person having power in cricket same thing is going on the umpire is changing the entire match situation. ICC has to change the term Umpire and put a name as valentator or some other just for to count balls carry bowlers accessories all other things should be done by Technology which will display the result on SCREEN as soon as ball completd. There should a person who observe things as which is third umpire is doing now and he has to correct the things if any technical problem occurs by seeing Video replies. What do u say friends
RE:Change the Term '' Umpire''
by lalit jha on Jan 10, 2008 12:20 AM
ICC can do whatever they want. People can cry foul over incidents if they want...
In my personal opinion - * Nobody is above game : That means if the players are pulled up for their behaviour and unsportsmanship then Umpires are not above game as well and they should be pulled up in case they give too many bad decisions.
Everyone gets paid for their job. Its better the poor employees of the game are punished right when they make mistakes. Not after series is over.
BCCI did well in flexing its muscle, ICC did good by replacing Bucknor. Its that simple..
We generate most of the revenue for ICC, we play it fair with true sportsmanship. Then its our responsibility to bring in some order in the game of cricket that we love so much. It doesn't matter, then, if some call us mighty flexing our muscle with money or political power. We did it because it was required to bring in order in the game.
Hmmm, now lets see. Aussie player gets racially slurred. No action. Aussie players are accused of unsportsmanlike conduct. Criticised by everyone. ICC capitulates to Indias threats. I though the golden rule of cricket was never to get a quick bowler angry. Well, we have (currently) the (consistently) quickest bowler in the world (Tait, 150-155kph), no. 2 (Lee, 145-150 kph), Johnson (140-150 kph) and Clark (slow but 14ft tall) and on the quickest pitch in the world (guarantee - that the curator is preparing a greentop). I hope you enjoy your heroes getting hurt because I believe they are heading for a world of pain. I can't imagine your boys are going to be seeing too much in their half of the pitch. Maybe a headache or two will teach your players not to support racism.
RE:Hee Hee Hee - A World Of Hurt
by raj on Jan 09, 2008 03:44 PM
hmm, now lets see. Indian player falsely framed of racism, the match referee colludes with the team and makes it sure he's banned. the indian team has to frantically try all its avenues to wake up the icc. the aussie players have time and again been accused of being unsportmanlike, for sledging and excessive ego problem. Criticized by everyone for that. now the aussie team wants to get back with a flurry of bouncers and indirectly threatening that. they have assured a concrete pitch so that they can dominate the match. the fans seem to enjoy the prospects of players getting hurt. also this is how they are going to be "fair" after all this hullabaloo of australia is the most fair team in the world. bring it on, big deal.
RE:Hee Hee Hee - A World Of Hurt
by Doogie Hauser on Jan 09, 2008 04:04 PM
Four people said he did it, two didn't. We win 4-2. To cover your points, No. 1) Flurry of bouncers - if its intimidatory bowling, the umpires will take care of it. Of course the Indian cricket team accepts the umpires decision explicitly. Concrete pitch, been the same since the 1960's, unless your suggesting the pitch character has changed (Mumbai anyone???). Of course the fans enjoy seeing people getting hurt, I love watching genuinely quick bowling making batsmen (not tail enders) jump around. Are you suggesting Raj that we should not bowl short because a poor Indian might get hurt. Suggesting its not fair. You should probably watch another game. I'll be the first to agree that Aussie cricketers leave a lot be desired in the way they play the game. Having said that, its been the same for over 20 years. Why complain now when you hardly complained before? Steve Waugh invented mental disintegration, yet he's supposed to be a saint in India. Warne and McGrath were the two worst behaved cricketers I ever saw, yet you guys signed both up in a flash. We get the distinct impression that your only complaining because you lost when you should've won. Get over it. So to summarise, I opened the bowling for 20 years and if it was me playing for Oz, the only way you'd stop me from some chin music would be to get out. Especially at Perth.
RE:Hee Hee Hee - A World Of Hurt
by kishorebhavanam on Jan 09, 2008 04:32 PM
by Dr Kishore Mr Hauser sport is for entertainment regardless of who is gonna win, one needs to play it fairly. On the racial slur, well.. if only 2 indians are present at the situation and 11 ozs, obiously u win. We respect peoply with morals.. not people who ground catches and arrogently claim that they have take them cleanly. What happens in Perth is to be seen it will be nice contest if our top order fires .I request u to watch the sport in right sprit
RE:Hee Hee Hee - A World Of Hurt
by raj on Jan 09, 2008 04:28 PM
4-2, with the 3 who havent heard it against 2 have heard what was said.
oh yeah dont get me started with mumbai. the crumbling pitch was accepted by the indian brd as bad for the game. something funny happened in that match, clarke took 5 wickets, he was hailed as a young genious, nothing abt the ptich. zilch. nada. later when their batsmen got ripped off, woah, the avalanche was let loose. lmfao.
i wasnt suggesting you not to bowl bouncers. i said, you want to threaten us with that. so "bring it on, we're ready".
steve waugh's no saint in the cricket pitch in india. he's a good guy and liked off the field.
warne and mcgrath also happen to be poster boys of cricket. big deal if push comes to shove, dump 'em we dont need no stinking aussie.
we've pretty well acknowledged that indian batsmen didnt do well, despite being hard done by the umpire. so yu want kumble to call you ?
big deal buddy, i was a medium pacer myself, and also as a batsmen, i had faced plenty of chin music from my other teams - at university level - and, i wouldnt be afraid of anyone bowling at me, full pace or whatever. big deal. yu're still trollng around trying to flex some verbal muscles. nice try ruffling people.
RE:Hee Hee Hee - A World Of Hurt
by Doogie Hauser on Jan 09, 2008 04:50 PM
Fellas, the 4-2 was meant to be humourous but I guess some people are a little beyond that. Never been to India (although by all accounts its a fascinating place). By every international account through the 70's, 80's and early 90's, the world centre for pitch doctoring was India. Ask those Oz sports hall of famers your so fond of quoting. A threat is something you intend to carry out if you do not get your way (sound familiar anyone). Believe me, chin music is a promise. Steve Waugh was an (excellent) cricketing pig. He institutionalised sledging in the Oz team. Why would I want Kumble to call me? I'd tell him to grow up and stop ripping off Ponsford quotes for publicity. As he has only been Capt for a short time, he shouldn't be held responsible for other Capts inaction. Having said that, why no complaint about Ozzy behaviour beforehand from other Indian Capts? In my view theres been plenty to comment on but nothing. Makes you wonder.... As for flexing some verbal muscle, couldn't be bothered. Just trying my best to educate some of the poor uneducated souls out there in Indialand. And obviously Uni level cricket in India is pretty poor, anyone thats faced really quick bowling and isn't afraid is either mistaken, deluded or kidding themselves. As for right spirit, I'm thinking of downing Scotch for the next test. I don't think it will last long enough for me to get drunk on beer.
RE:Hee Hee Hee - A World Of Hurt
by raj on Jan 09, 2008 05:10 PM
yeah, well, i had to make a point abt 4-2.
pitch doctoring in india is about preparing a spin track, as like the aussie team prepares a concrete one. both suits each other's styles.
chin music or whatever way you chose to put it. promise or otherwise, your tone carried it .
not too fond ot steve waugh on field, except he was one tough nut who'd never give up, i admire him for that. i dint like his sledging bit though. ganguly stood up to his tactics well, and did well to counter him on the field, off it and by winning a few test matches.
we dont need some of the aussie education, maybe yu should try one of the universities, we could use you well!
i dont mind that university level cricket is poor, i agree to it. but im not down with spirit. well, do i have to explain that i have to dodge the ball, and be on my guard all the time ? but i'll stand upto it. i had done that when i was batting, i dint whinge and avoid the field. what are you trying ? trying to eke out a "oooh im afraid of you" ? yu can keep you delusions and illusions to yourself. west indies had 5 superfast bowlers who'd beat the crap out of any team, even the aussie, and there was sunil gavaskar wearing a skullcap and scored a ton of runs. keep that threat again to your self. a weak mind resorts to threats.
you can chose whatever suits you! glenlivet ? glenfiddich ? take you pick, enjoy your day!
i'm off for now. i'll join you later, if you care to.
RE:Hee Hee Hee - A World Of Hurt
by raj on Jan 09, 2008 10:22 PM
Well, you gotta be kidding... all of 'em are either flat or spin tracks in india :)
well, i dint think too much of waugh either along with his tactics.
well, uni was a long time back for me, im not a crickter, but my career is different now.
and im not too much of a cricketer, so there's not much of a standard to it, or else id be some place with cricket. maybe i dint face those frightfully quick bowling. whatever it is, ive seen some real arrogant chaps in my college, a couple of them were in state level junior teams, i guess 130kmph tops from them and occasionally higher than that, which is not too much, still pretty quick for university standards. sure, you sounded like it was chest thumping, so i said big deal, its not that yu want to be a man then stand against me. its that ok, yu might be in harm's way when this guy's bowling. given a choice i'd rather face spinners or medium pacers. quite right. for me, it was standing upto these snobs who were always laughing at a not-so proficient batsmen. 14 runs in an over, and a few overs to boost the score to 45 runs in some quick running, and thanx to the other batsman shut them up pretty effectively. so there goes, i faced those guys who were stinkers with their attitude just cos they bowled fast, so i feel pretty much the same if someone told me i'd bowl pretty fast and yu'd better run for cover.
RE:Hee Hee Hee - A World Of Hurt
by Doogie Hauser on Jan 09, 2008 05:24 PM
Just in case you come back...
You left out one important point about pitch doctoring. The pitch changes from what it usually is at the behest of one of the teams. Oz pitches haven't changed too much in 50 years (Syd, spins, Melb low, Adel good, Perth, crazy and Bris, greentop). I'm struggling to see the difference between Ponting and Waugh. So why is Ponting being hammered and Waugh wasn't? Sorry, I'm beyond Uni. Have no interest of completing more postgrad education. If you ever watched my television show, I completed my doctorate of medicine at the age of 14 (google it). Anyone that plays cricket is golden in my book, so I apologise for denigrating your standard of cricket. I have no intention of criticising the way you play either. Once again I've met noone whose faced genuinely quick bowling and has not been afraid. Doesn't mean you don't stand your ground, just means you'd rather not face it if you had a choice. And yes, India (30 years ago) did very well against the best bowling going at the time. Glenfiddich, definitely a doublemalt man. Pleasure talking to you Raj.
I always was of the opinion that cricket is a game involving 11 players on each team...
But all of you need to admit, it is difficult if not impossible to win when you are playing against a team of 14 players ( 11 plus Benson, Bucknor and the 3rd Umpire ).
Ideally ICC should have the match categorized as no-result if someone care two hoods about the sanctity of the game..
My 2 cents suggestion for the whole Umpiring error saga would be to make full use of technology on catches/stumpings/noballs (Crease)
All no balls should be given by an Umpire and the Third Umpire/Camera should correct if there is an error.
Every Batsman should be given 1 Chance to Challenge the umpires decision (refer to the Third Umpire) if he think he is not out. (Its okay to Challenge the Umpire after all he is human too.)
If the fielding teams is 100% sure about the catch/stumping and the umpire has not given the decision in their favor then for each batsman the fielding team can refer only once to the Third Umpire.
I want to see a fair game. Laws can be re-written. Technology must be used.
RE:Use Technology for catches/stumpings/noballs
by raj on Jan 09, 2008 10:19 AM
yeah, maybe a beep in the stadium or near the pitch if there's a o ball. but the no-ball rule is quite dodgy. we might have to use really hi-fi tech to introduce a foolproof no-ball system. markers on pitch and the shoes and an electronic system for no ball detection. kinda an overkill ? or rather have people like bucknor out, and have people like taufel or bowden in.
RE:Use Technology for catches/stumpings/noballs
by KuljitSingh Nijjar on Jan 09, 2008 12:50 PM
I would like the ICC to invest in technology and it should be made available at all grounds where an International match is being scheduled/played.
The Cameramen should try to capture from all angles.
Challenging the umpires will keep them alert, like all the players are punished (deduction of their playing fees) for all the umpiring errors they should be penalized as well. Umpires are not God.
People might argrue that referring to umpires will consume time, so what ? maximum of 1 minute per referral 10 mins extra per innings.
If they really dont make this change then I suggest the good old days. please dont show us any replays :-) we the public really get dejected when we come to know that a dubious decision was made
RE:Use Technology for catches/stumpings/noballs
by raj on Jan 09, 2008 12:55 PM
what if the entire camera crew were from channel 9 ? distinct possibility of showing all the asians when they are swearing or acting out of character, and when the aussie team swears or is busy sledging, people from cover walking up for "friendly banter" , the cams are trained on a gull on the boundary or the chick beyond the ropes.
well, thats just happened a few times. noted journalists and cricket players from the sub continant have also observed that. is the ICC competent and fair ?
RE:Use Technology for catches/stumpings/noballs
by KuljitSingh Nijjar on Jan 09, 2008 01:00 PM
I wouldn't comment in sledging at this point, my focus is only on catches/stumpings/noballs. So the camera crew should and must focus their cameras once the bowler takes his run up on the game, rather than showing anything other than cricket. They are paid and should be fired if they dont do their job correctly. Special instructions/training classes should conducted on how to cover the game
RE:RE:Use Technology for catches/stumpings/noballs
by raj on Jan 09, 2008 01:05 PM
true. i know what yu are trying to say. there's time in between when they show the babes and ear rings. some times they take the focus off the field when it suits their interests - who-ever is running the cams. isnt it subjective ? im just saying people can be clever with the cams. as for the use of more tech - its welcome if it impacts the game so much. people expect the team to win, more so these days.
RE:Use Technology for catches/stumpings/noballs
by Sharad Saxena on Jan 09, 2008 11:22 AM
One of the best solution if ICC really want the care of cricket!!!
RE:RE:Use Technology for catches/stumpings/noballs
by Sharad Saxena on Jan 09, 2008 11:23 AM
But a million dollar question HOW PONTING and CLARK WILL SURVIVE????.....lol
wonder how many careers he'd ruin, or how many mis-understandings between boards and people of different countries he'd have created by the time he left! he's scheduled to leave in 2011!
surely there would be no row in this test without bucknor and to a smaller degree benson. i'd prefer simon taufel or billy bowden. both are pretty good!
Julian I ask u Why your Prime minister, Minister of foreign affair and most important SPORTS minister have given statements against the Ponting and behaviour of his mates.....go man and read australian newspapers instead of CRYING here...
RE:My Australian friend Julian ...read your newspaper first
by Sharad Saxena on Jan 09, 2008 09:46 AM
And pls dont forget 2 see the opinion poll....51% said your SPORTS IDOL PONTING shud b sacked....listening???
60% said Behaviour of Harbhajan singh is acceptable... now move fast to grab your copy or connect to THE AGE..your own australian newspaper...
RE:My Australian friend Julian ...read your newspaper first
by julianthehooligan on Jan 09, 2008 09:52 AM
If you don't like the answers mate, don't ask the questions.
Australia's a country with a fair go attitude. If people feel others haven't been given a fair crack they'll say so.
And if India are being churlish we'll say that too.
RE:My Australian friend Julian ...read your newspaper first
by Sharad Saxena on Jan 09, 2008 09:55 AM
Julian ask the question first....How can I answer without a question....only a Australian can do that
like Symonds...Helping Brett Lee without even asked by Brett Lee
RE:My Australian friend Julian ...read your newspaper first
by julianthehooligan on Jan 09, 2008 10:04 AM
Mateship is very important in Australia mate.
RE:My Australian friend Julian ...read your newspaper first
by raj on Jan 09, 2008 10:08 AM
well, for most parts other than the sledging - australians are fair. im pretty sure. its not that we have a giant brush and we paint 'em all black. it doesnt work that ways for either side. childish/ churlish behaviour etc etc that julian or anyone hurls at us to undermine the argument of an assurance that india seeks, or fair justice which has been denied to bhajji. what's worse is the lack of transparency - proctor says sorry i will not provide proof. thats plain bad, he's messing up a volatile situation and find himself questioned - and he aligns himself with CA and ICC to seek cover. all he has to do is explain and give proof or else revoke bhajji ban.
yu will never get an answer from julian or any fellow aussie who chose to hurl further words such as "churlish" "childish" or "we are the champions, yu are not" to anyone who ask why do all the aussie greats chose to criticise their own players behaviour.
RE:My Australian friend Julian ...read your newspaper first
by julianthehooligan on Jan 09, 2008 10:46 AM
Whats fair is to follow the procedure set down by the ICC to fully hear the complaint.
There a numerous sporting tribunerals all over the world. Most don't conduct hearings in public.
It is up to the officials charged with the responsibilty to make the determinations, not me, not you, and not the guy down the street.
Justice fair or otherwise has not been denied to anyone. Singh has the right to appeal, and has exercised that right. The case is yet to be determined.
The Australian team are under constant scrutiny, and are critisied, thats what this post is about.
Hogg is going through the same system as Singh yet we in Australia are not crying in our beer.
RE:My Australian friend Julian ...read your newspaper first
by Sharad Saxena on Jan 09, 2008 11:26 AM
Thats a drama just 2 silence the aggression of Indian cricket fans otherwise the charges against Hogg does not deserve sec 3
RE:My Australian friend Julian ...read your newspaper first
by raj on Jan 09, 2008 11:23 AM
Indians have been fair. they have not disputed the ICC process. they have only sought the rules of the icc panel to be followed for the call of solid evidence, as in lehmann's case. if there's no evidence it sets a dangerous precedence of any team doing whatever it wants.
idont question the numerous tribunals aroud the world, i know pretty well about that. no one can make a false accusation of anyone testing positive for a drug abuse, it needs solid evidence. there's no tribunal that makes a case out of nothing.
sure its upto the officials, who else ? never questioned that to receive instructions or enlightenment.
australian team is under constant scrutiny, so is every other team in this age and time. they are more so cos they are the helm of affairs, more so because every other country has a problem with their attitude. and some point or the other this team has been accused of using that foul attitude, sledging to un-nerve the opponent. its sledging which is fair according to aussie it might not be fair for others. especially when they opine about it openly.
good for hogg. surely aussie blokes wont cry for him, not after bhajji has been accused of. imagine if hogg was turned in unilaterally, yu'd be crying foul im sure.
RE:RE:My Australian friend Julian ...read your newspaper first
by raj on Jan 09, 2008 11:31 AM
i think it does. its a pretty darn serious abuse i india. people would have been violent for abusing anyone with that word. and he abused the indian captain with that word.
RE:My Australian friend Julian ...read your newspaper first
by julianthehooligan on Jan 09, 2008 11:41 AM
I think the way Hogg was reported smacked of sour grapes. he wasn't reported on the field at the time. He was only reported after Singh got his ban, as an act of retaliation.
Raj mate, they have disputed the ICC process, they have called long and loud to have the ban on Singh lifted. That is not how the process works. If they disagree with the decision they can appeal. Thats the process.
Not to threaten to stop the tour unless the ban is lifted. Thats huberis.
RE:My Australian friend Julian ...read your newspaper first
by raj on Jan 09, 2008 11:55 AM
well, indians dint want to report the sledging thing, when the aussie team makes things up, you have to retaliate. im afraid it was a bit late it the day, but never too late. its tit for tat. we've always been kinda the lazy kind - should have been more proactive.
the appeal was reported by different people differently. bcci says we will appeal to revoke the ban/ to make it clear/ to prove the charge. if the proof aint there, we want the ban removed. get that loud and clear ? the process is disputed because of lack of proof, and tommorrow the aussie team can slap another claim on sachin. this time the entire team says they heard ganguly mouthing the m word to symonds, again the tv hasnt picked anything. and proctor will go by the aussie word, and not by probably dravid standing at the other end. so proctor would say, just because ganguly has always been aggressive, he must have said it!
bcci wants assurance of fair deal from proctor, the umpires. now look, dickie bird says the old man bucknor should go, icc belatedly after much pressure from the world decides to get rid of bucknor.
RE:My Australian friend Julian ...read your newspaper first
by julianthehooligan on Jan 09, 2008 12:09 PM
You can't have it both ways mate. If the umpire at the end of the day says he's guilty, then thats it. Reporting Hogg in that way is just poor form.
I've got no doubt he said what he said. And I leave it up to the ICC to test whether it was said as a racist taunt or just another swear word. The kind of swear words often exchanged as the batsman and bowler politely discuss the days events.
The fact that Proctor ruled against Singh, dosn't make him prejudiced, he is not the final arbitor, and never was.
RE:My Australian friend Julian ...read your newspaper first
by julianthehooligan on Jan 09, 2008 02:17 PM
You don't know what Singh said or didn't say.
You have the right to appeal.
Trying to subvert the process by threatening to call off the tour is precious.
Your mates don't seem to have any stomache for a fight. I hope you're not going to rely on them for support.
RE:My Australian friend Julian ...read your newspaper first
by raj on Jan 09, 2008 03:09 PM
for the Nth time, and if you cant seem to get a grasp of it.
imagine if the noises weren't made - mr. bucknor who does not give as many bad decisions aussie team, would stay.
we play by the icc rules, according to the rules the umpire cant be changed in mid tour. there's never been an instance of so many bad decision going in one teams favour. so if we want to play by the rules, we'd have to endure the entire tour with bucknor. guys like dickie bird have called for his retirement.
icc rules are fine, going by the icc rules, we'd have to endure his one sided , biased umpiring for the length of it. more bad blood, more rash of bad decisions for sure. bucknor in the recent past has been caught mimicking dravid on air, he's been the centre of numerous bad decisions against indians. well, we feel criticising the umpires has to be there. we have done that in the past - but what use ? bucknor's not punished. in soccer, the refree gets demoted, but this man got promotion of 5 years.
we dont have faith in ICC. what better time to force a rethink. now, people around the world are welcomingthis stance of removing bucknor, and many people have called for his retirement. it could be bucknor it could be proctor, if he does not perform, let him be punished for it.
"stomach for a fight" wow, another verbal street fight, trolling at its best.
RE:My Australian friend Julian ...read your newspaper first
by raj on Jan 09, 2008 12:21 PM
well, thats your problem. bhajji dint say the word. period. and brad hogg did for indians. its your problem that you cant accept it, no matter what way you chose to put it.
it does not matter if its a swear word or racism. both are big for indians. equally big. in fact that B word maybe small for you, not for us, you cant deny that its small for us. we dont want the swear word culture started by aussies.
we are not against proctor for all times. this is one case we feel, we are right. and we have every right to challenge it, and we have challenged it.
RE:My Australian friend Julian ...read your newspaper first
by RB on Jan 09, 2008 01:36 PM
Hey Raj buddie - why are you wasting your time against this catholic assuming good for nothing 2 cent piece of dog Sh*t.. he deserves no attention at all budd! Lets spend our time discussing more important matters for our team with other mates..Cheers!
RE:My Australian friend Julian ...read your newspaper first
by raj on Jan 09, 2008 01:41 PM
naah, well, just want to settle it, word for word. he believes he's right, for all that he says. i don't mind slugging it out verbally.
RE:My Australian friend Julian ...read your newspaper first
by julianthehooligan on Jan 10, 2008 05:14 AM
Its not up to India to pick the umpires, thats the ICC's job. India didn't get a fair shake, Australia lost out in a few instances as well.
The game was turned when Buckner gave Dhoni out not offering a shot, thus exposing India's weakest batsmen. That was a fair call, nothing wrong with that call. Nothing wrong with the final three wickets either.
Buckner had a poor game, no doubt. But he was not the sole arbiter of the Indian demise. For that you need only look to your top order batsmen.
Why is it that Kumble could bat through his innings... again, and put on such a fine show, yet his top order folded. The answer is simple, he's got fight in him, that thing you constantly deride Australia for.
I've said it before on this post and I'll say it again. If India had a few more like him, they'd have more success.
So if you want to punish the umpires, look to your own team as well.
RE:RE:My Australian friend Julian ...read your newspaper first
by raj on Jan 09, 2008 11:58 AM
"and tommorrow the aussie team can slap another claim on ganguly."
i wrote sachin... anyways. just wanted to make a point.
