Re: Thank GOD, atleast sports in India is free from foreigners
by Devin Aaron on Dec 30, 2008 02:39 AM
I think you ar being fooled by your govt. as the sports min has jst approved foreign coaches to coach indian players.
Your gold medals frm olympics shud be removed b.c bindra ws coached by a foreign person too. Also the gold medals frm hockey hs to be removd b.c ther wer anglo-indian players on the team in the late 20's to 60's.
Evn right now, thy jst hired a chinese shootin champion to coach shooters. In cricket nearly all coaches ar foreigners, nd now evn foreigns frm who coach india shud be removed.
Furthermore, people frm india has to be banned frm ur govt. in takin assistence frm abroad facilities, they can work in the crappy facilites tht ar in india.
You guys ar racists to your own citizens, nd lookin at the politicians choosen frm guys like you proves tht you too arn't evn indians frm heart.
Get this, evn mother teresa nd her foundation hs to removed frm india, b.c she is a foreign born. Wht made you gys keep the old lady in ur country?
Re: Thank GOD, atleast sports in India is free from foreigners
by Balakrishnan Ponneri on Dec 27, 2008 11:28 AM
Is it only for sports. It should also be applied to Politicians. Only Indian Born should stand for election.
Indians living outside India take up the citizenship of countries like the US and UK partly because the Indian govt. does not let them vote in Indian elections even though they are Indian citizens. Most other countries allow their citizens to cast absentee ballots. As a result you can neither vote in India or US/UK. In order to be citizens they take up a US citizenship. Then India oks the OCI card. OCI stands for Overseas Citizen of India. Citizen of India has to mean something. The sports minister probably did not read what it stands for. To say the OCI is for economic benefits only is incorrect. It bestows upon the holder every right except voting in the Indian elections.
The argument that these guys/gals were not good enough to play for their adopted homeland is irrelevant. The question is are they the best in India. If they are they should be allowed to play. Most of these people have better facilities abroad and train over there anyway.
There are many such cases around the world. Greg Rusedski although Canadian plays for England. Robin Singh although Trinidadian played cricket for India. Kevin Peterson although South African plays for England. It is not like they have given up their other citizenship. They all have dual citizenships. India through the OCI card made this possible and now for the convenience of someone who did not make the team a decision like this has been taken. It should be challenged in court.
Re: Not a good decision
by Rahul Oberoi on Dec 27, 2008 12:30 PM
Yaaar do you even realize what u are saying ? Greg Rusedski is a Canadian born guy who is a US citizen. He represents the US NOT Canada. Aame is the case for kevin Peterson. Robin Singh initially played for Trinidad and then moved to India - got an Indian passport and played for India. None of these guys have got another country;s passport and played for a different country.
Kepler wessles was a different case - he earned the rights to play for Australia after playing 7 years in th domestic circuit in Australia when South Africa was not eligible to play becoz of Apartheid ban. But the m oment they became eligible, he went back and played for SA.
Re: Re: Not a good decision
by prakash mohanasundaram on Dec 28, 2008 01:22 PM
Rusedski is a Canadian born player who represented Canada initially and became a British citizen since one of his parent is a Brit. Then he started representing Britain till his retirement.
It is unfair for everyone to assume, like this official, that people are coming to represent India, only because they are not good enough to represent their country of domicile. For example, Sharapova made it clear that, even though she lived in US since childhood, she wants to play for Russia. Nothing wrong with that. It is a matter of national pride that the athlete feels.
People choose their country of domicile for training purposes. If you are a tennis player, Florida is a great place to be. Lot of Europeans maintain homes in Florida just to get easier access to the facilities. Especially for sports that require good facilities, you have to do what you can to get access. Most small towns in US provide cheap access to indoor olympic pools. It is a luxury in India. If we get next Michael Phelps who wants to move to get access, do you want to drop him from Indian team?
We always find some reason to separate among ourselves and quarrel about it. NRIs vs Residents, Telugu vs. Tamil, North vs. South, we got to learn to not find reasons to aleanate our own. This helped the british rule us for 400 years. This helps politicians create vote banks and continue to play immoral politics based on caste/race/region. With all the progress we saw in India moving towards a super power, isn't it time, to unite now?
On this topic, any foreign citizen with duel citi'ship, should be able to represent India, if he feels to. Don't ask for Indian govt money, since you dont pay taxes.
Re: Dual Citizenship
by Chander on Dec 26, 2008 11:09 PM
The Govt is just particular about citizenship. NRI, still holding Indian Passport is eligible.
See the time is bad now, what with mumbai attack and all that. Think GOI is getting bit serious about everything.
Re: Re: Dual Citizenship
by Vishnu Varma on Dec 26, 2008 11:19 PM
Chander, Good point on security.
In reality, most of these guys take citizenship of US or UK, so that they dont have to take visas for international events. As you can imagine, for indian citizens, it is hardwork, every time you cross a border.
If you are an NRI and not paying domestic taxes, you still should not be eligible for govt money. But you should certainly be able to represent India, if you are good enough. It does not matter whether you take citizenship of another country or not.
Re: Re: Re: Dual Citizenship
by Chander on Dec 26, 2008 11:28 PM
There is one hidden point. Under present system, native indians are not getting selected, as they are not good enough. Most of the slots get filled up by Indian Players who prove to be better than the Natives. They have better hold on Sports Ministry.
You can call it some sort of reservation, with lowered eligibility
Re: Re: Re: Dual Citizenship
by Devin Aaron on Dec 30, 2008 03:19 AM
Of course you hav to take visa's to travel to other countries, evn if your us. citizenship.
My friend to come to india jst b.c of vacation purpose hs to get a tourist visa, so he gt visitin visa. Thers also work visa incase ur workin in anthr country nd thts for business people or evn research people to go study in abt anthr country in any areas, like archeology or zoology. Or a student visa fr student exchange progrm.
To travel to othr countries fr sports reason, thers anthr visa fr tht too. For evry event be it missionaries, business,employment,conference, journalist etc..
Re: Re: Dual Citizenship
by Balakrishnan Ponneri on Dec 27, 2008 11:32 AM
Then why the hell you hail the achievements of Kalpana Chawla,etc. of NASA and even TN govt award achievers in memory of Kalpana Chawla.
Re: Re: Re: Dual Citizenship
by Rahul Oberoi on Dec 27, 2008 12:09 PM
Bhai mere - hailing someone's achievement and having that non-citizen representing your country are two different things. Kalpana Chawla didn't represent ISRO - she represented NASA incase you didn't know. As a PIO the people of India will laud Prakash Amritraj if he makes it big as an American but make no mistake he shouldnt be allowed to represent India as long as he doesn't hold an Indian passport.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Dual Citizenship
by Vishnu Varma on Dec 27, 2008 06:45 PM
Rahul,
These guys are holding qequivalent of Indian Passports with dual citizenships. That is supposed to be the purpose of the dual citizenship.
The question is, can you still call them a non-citizen, after granting them dual citizenship.
If you look at the argument, we are saying it is fair to not give them monetary support. But eliminating them, from representation, does not make sense. What is the purpose of that? Most of the other free countries which support dual citizenship, do that.
Re: sardar ney bas ek acha kaam kiya paanch saal mein!
by Satya ss on Dec 26, 2008 10:22 PM
I guess you dont have any brothers/sisters outside India? And they dont love India? And they dont deserve to be Indians? Come one..It is a new world where going out of country is not considered being a traitor. Infact it is because of people who go out India is even shining. Take it or leave it ..but dont reject Indians like this.
Re: Re: sardar ney bas ek acha kaam kiya paanch saal mein!
by indian on Dec 26, 2008 10:30 PM
Can they win their national championships in their respective fields in their respective countries? I doubt that. Till then they are good for nothing. They are trying to use India as a means to enter International Sport.
Re: Re: Re: sardar ney bas ek acha kaam kiya paanch saal mein!
by Devin Aaron on Dec 30, 2008 04:22 AM
Neither ar the indian athletes who ar born nd bred in india can win a national championship. So evn the indian citizen athletes ar good for nothing, not only tht the facilites in india ar also good for nothing.
India itself approves foreign coaches nd rcntly bindra ws also coached by a foreign coach.
Why is india against OCI's whn they approve foreign coaches, india in this way is using foreigns for their own incompetence to enter international sport.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: sardar ney bas ek acha kaam kiya paanch saal
by Satya ss on Dec 26, 2008 10:36 PM
That's not the point. You mean if they were as good as Fed/steffi graf then only we should ask them to represent India? Dont you see that these folks are training and playing with Indian players so they can represent India. i think no matter they have equal rights to compete amongst Indians to represent India if they chose to. An indian is a indian even if he is born outside and deserved to be treated like one. That is my claim and i strongly believe in it.
Re: Re: sardar ney bas ek acha kaam kiya paanch saal mein!
by kalyanaraman s. on Dec 26, 2008 10:37 PM
I d not think this is rejection. Just as every country has some rules and regulations in practically all walks of life, India does have similar ruels too. I do not see how this is rejection.
Symonds, the cricket player, was a citizen of England (by birth) and Australia (through domicile). he had to choose one of them and he chose Australia. India's action is similar to that.
other examples are Kepler Wessels, Kevin Petersen. All of them were asked to choose between their country of birth and country of domicile. they were not rejected, but they just had to follow the rules !!
Re: Re: Re: sardar ney bas ek acha kaam kiya paanch saal mein!
by Satya ss on Dec 26, 2008 10:40 PM
Yes exactly what i mean. We need dual citizenship (Mr Vajpayee would have given that). And then ppl can chose whom they want to represent.
Re: Re: Re: Re: sardar ney bas ek acha kaam kiya paanch saal mein
by indian on Dec 26, 2008 11:14 PM
Okay baba...Let every one whose fore fore fore fore father was also an Indian come and compete with India. Let them claim they are Indians, god forbid if they happen to win any title lets lick their foot and claim India has another medal / trophy. Please take rest and sleep well. Your Indian Bros and Sis will be taken care even they are from past 100 generations.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: sardar ney bas ek acha kaam kiya paanch saal
by Satya ss on Dec 26, 2008 11:56 PM
Now you are being totally cynical. I wish India were in a position to feed so many peoples aspirations. My point is about whether a non India born Indian children have equal rights. I am sure we dont have a million people from past 1000 years standing at the PM's house asking for rights. And even if they do as they are Indian origin they have all the rights.
First the status of PIO for foreign born Indian is truely pathetic. Just becos they are born outside they become non-indian citizen. Truly disgusting when these people do deserve to be Indian citizens. So many useless criminals from Bngladesh has been citizenship but true Indians who happen to be born outside are chastized and disowned. Is this awesome India or 'awful' India. These are just plain politics. By disowning Indians whom are we isolating?
Re: Horrendous Decision and unfair to Indian
by Chander on Dec 26, 2008 10:17 PM
There are ways one can get citizenship. Its not just by birth, there are other categories... okey, don't scream. your point well understood.
Re: Horrendous Decision and unfair to Indian
by Satya ss on Dec 26, 2008 10:12 PM
After all these are the best tennis people we ever had, and they are willing to represent India at the cost of losing their American citizenship. I am sure that is more than enough to prove to be Indian. NRI's have to fight for dual citizenship immediately.
Re: Re: Horrendous Decision and unfair to Indian
by indian on Dec 26, 2008 10:20 PM
They are the best players? Who are they? They fail to meet the national standards of their countries and they want to find easy way to enter international sport through their Indian origin. The players should feel shamed to try to represent India. Before accepting a passport of another country one has to disown his origin and vow allegiance to the country where he wants to live. How can these shameless players can play for INDIA. Agreed we do not have talented players, but the above mentioned players are neither god in their own countries.
Re: Re: Horrendous Decision and unfair to Indian
by kalyanaraman s. on Dec 26, 2008 10:47 PM
first of all, NRIs are still Indians and I do not think they are prohibited from participation. it is the Indians who have obtained citizenship of other countries, who are barred from representing India. this is logical, isn't it ?
Ideally, US and UK should object to these Indian-American citizens from representing India.
when all the Indians obtain the citizenship of US (and UK), they have to surrender their Indian passport take an oath of allegiance to their new country. the moment they do that, they are no more Indians; then how can they participate as Indians and represent India ? does not make sense to me !!
Re: Re: Re: Horrendous Decision and unfair to Indian
by Devin Aaron on Dec 30, 2008 04:17 AM
People get citizenship of a certain country b.c they plan to live,own house,enjoy the facilities tht provided by their taxes anyway. They also plan to work full time nd enjoy benefits from a certain country.
Representing india in terms of sports is logical evn though they hav anthr citizenship. As long as thy have a proper visa tht allows thm to perform their activities in a legal way, thn its fine.
Now why the hell the govt. is claiming to assist OCI's whn the OCI's ar using facilities elswer. Why is the govt. giving monetary gifts to athletes be it OCI's or indian citizens, the taxes of people across india is bein included into athletes salary. Now tht def. does not make sense.
Its the job of the sponsors nd endorsers of certain sports nd their events to all athletes monetary gifts, b.c the company is sponsoring the athletes.
Indian govt. does not need to sponsor OCI athletes or their own citizen athletes, b.c the sponsors ar doin tht job.
The only thing tht govt. needs to do is to provide facilites for indian citizens to enjoy, nd obviously not non-citizens.
OCI's representin india is abs logical accordin to ind. decisions nd its between sports fed, sponsors, nd themselves only.
The sports min nd govt. need not involve in makin hassles i.e bring up this kind of issue. Problem can be very well solved in a amicable manner tht doesn't involve irresponsible behavior on sport min. part.
Sports min. shud hav made these rules before, why now thy ar thinkin
Re: Re: Horrendous Decision and unfair to Indian
by indian on Dec 26, 2008 10:23 PM
Hello!!! DO not generalize..not all are not willing to fore go their US citizenship etc...Only one Shikha has mentioned others are mum.
Re: Re: Re: Horrendous Decision and unfair to Indian
by Satya ss on Dec 26, 2008 10:28 PM
Just because they are born outside does not mean they are not Indian Dude. They could train outside, as does all Indian tennis player anyway (including Leander). And if they want to represent India isnt that a proud thing. Let the decision be taken by them and not by govt. I am only against blatantly disowning Indians born outside.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Horrendous Decision and unfair to Indian
by Vishnu Varma on Dec 27, 2008 12:15 AM
I am not talking about disowning etc. I agree that they should be allowed to represent India. But I think that the govt is right in rejecting financial support. If they dont pay taxes as their primary country, they should not expect monetary benefits, dont you think so?
There should be equal opportunities for all. An NRI coming to India just for a chance to participate cannot be justified. If he/she feels Indian from deep within, why not stay in India and participate like all others? If they are adamant about their staying abroad, they need not take the pain in coming to India for winning laurels for the nation.
Re: I am convinced that the government is right.
by karthik subramanian on Dec 27, 2008 03:46 PM
If a petrson can stay in india & win,then how come india has won lesser gold medals than 1person in olympics?
IT IS A BRILLIANT MOVE TO RESTRICT THOSE WHO THINK CAN MANEOUVRE THE SYSTEM BUT AT THE SAME TIME THE GOVERNMENT MUST PROVIDE WORLD CLASS FACILITIES TO OUR SPORTS PERSONS TO ACHEIEVE WHAT THEY HAVE SHOWN IN BITS AND PIECES THEY ARE CAPABLE OF ACHEVING INSTEAD OF REFUSING PASSPORTS FOR TRAVEL TO COMPETENT AND DEDICATED SPORTS PEOPLE WITHIN THE COUNTRY THESE PEOPLE HAVE RISEN ISPITE OF THE RESTRICTIONS AND OBSTACLES AND LACK OF FACILITIES.
A good decision by the government. These players want facilities/training of their adopted country, but when they know they can't compete there. Hence when it comes to playing, they want to come back to India & claim some glory/some awards/ and make money.
Re: Good decision
by Vivek Vikram Sridharan on Dec 26, 2008 10:05 PM
india doesnt pay for those facilities. india pays 75 rupees per day for attending olympics. the biggest losers are as usual india. this doesnt go well with indians abroad who still love india. clearly shows the congress doesnt really analyse any situation well enough or patriotic.
