'Hindus believe in the Ram Sethu and Muslims and Christians in Adam's bridge' !!
What a convenient assumption ! But Mr. Tarun has been very cautious in trying not to cause any speculation or thought on the part of readers about the size of the fraction of Hindus, Muslims and Christians who believe this. It is simply assumed with characteristic assurance (or is it just a much cherished wish?) that everyone is entirely comfortable with such generalisations as beliefs of 'Hindus', 'Muslims' or 'Christians'.
Of course, the very idea that such generalisations simply do not apply in such matters as the Ram Setu is extremely inconvenient !
RE:Some generalisation and stereotyping !
by Amit Pathak on May 01, 2007 06:27 PM
Yes it is extremely inconvinient for the RASCALS like you. Because the people like you & our spo called 'Secular' Govt. dont want to leave any stone unturned to hurt Hindu Sentiments. For them Secularism is the synonym of anything which is Anti-Hindutva. Regards Amit
RE:RE:Some generalisation and stereotyping !
by Gaurav Sharma on May 02, 2007 01:57 AM
Every Hindu knows about Ram Setu and I'm sure that like me others also hope this bridge is man made...
RE:Some generalisation and stereotyping !
by Maximus Decimus Meridius on May 03, 2007 04:18 AM
Secular should mean non-religious not just anti hindutva. Sadly, the likes of Paswan call themselves secular and then ask for a muslim CM, or play caste politics (which is a trait of hinduism and hence not secular).
BTW, I wasnt aware non-hindus cared for the bridge. Also, wasnt the bridge made of floating stones? This ridge is submerged, so how can we be sure it is the same bridge? Gaurav Sharma said we hindus hope it is man made. Hope is a fine thing, but we need to rigourously prove it if you want world-wide acceptance. I've heard of this ISRO scientists' proof, but could not find anything on it, except second and third person accounts.
Finally, if the environmental or socio-economic impact on the coast and people living there is high, as may be the case, one can go round the SL. If not, find a route that has minimum impact on the environment and the local fishermen.
To create a navigation channel huge amout of sand and rocks need to be dredged along the route.Why don't we try to rebuild the 'Ram setu' again with dredged sand and rocks.the middle portion of the Ram setu can be foldable steel structure to allow ships cross the bridge.
Benefits: 1. Travel time and expenditure for the ships will reduce. 1. It will be more economical in moving sands and rocks to the 'Ram setu'/Adam's Bridge. 2. Direct land connectivity betwwn india and srilanka will boost trade and tourism. 3. Sunami can be prevented more effectively to enter south Kerala coastline.
RE:Bridge navigation channel
by Saurav Basu on May 01, 2007 09:37 PM
Only thing that will happen is that it will allow unrestricted access of Indian Shores to LTTE terrorists
RE:Bridge navigation channel
by Ramesh P on May 02, 2007 11:50 AM
skumar, 1. Do u know really how many of our ships actually go across coast ?? India's ships based on what they carry, enter the country on one side (east/west) and they seldom go around. Navy itself has bases on both sides and rarely even the battle ships go across.
2. India and Lanka trade with not get any new benefit because of this, already colombo is very close to tuticorn.
3. Tsunami will come to our coasts more faster because of the erosion of this barrier due to dredging, I don't how you stupidly argue in the other way.
RE:Bridge navigation channel
by sibby mathews on May 03, 2007 12:25 AM
At least on the count of the number of ships travelling around Sri Lanka, you are wrong !
Tankers bearing Petroleum crude and Petroleum products routinely travel from ports on the west coast to those on the east coast and vice versa. A very significant portion of the crude processed in Indian refineries comes from the Persian gulf. Many of these tankers first make a call at Mumbai port where they off load part of their cargo. The balance is carried down and distributed between Mangalore, Cochin, Chennai, Vizag and Haldia (near Kolkata). The same is the case with vessels carrying finished Petroleum products too. Besides, crude from Bombay High is carried in tankers to each of the above mentioned destinations. Petroleum tankers form a large fraction of the occean vessels moving from coast to coast. This traffic is thus, very thick.
Besides, container ships carrying various goods (both import and export) also move frequently from the west to east and vice versa. Besides saving on fuel and other costs, these tankers will save one day in such coast to coast runs if they can sail between Lanka and the Indian mainland. This can be such a huge movement forward for this sector of shipping.
As far as the threat of Tsunamis getting heightenend due to this project is concerned, I would like to make the following two points :
1. This perception is put forth as just a possibility by one section of the scientific community associated with this area of research &
2. The occurance of Tsunamis itself is very rare. And the probability of tsunamis as large as the one in 2004 occuring again in the future is extremely slim. The previous one had occured 400 years ago !
If you read the NASA report, you might come across this explanation about this 'bridge': "Between the two toombolos a lagoon is formed which gradually fills with sediment and becomes a flat sand bar". Such natural phenomenon have also been found in Somalia, New York, Gibraltar and Italy. (Source http://images.jsc.nasa.gov/luceneweb/caption_direct.jsp?photoId=STS056-78-083)
But then you knicker-walla were never that great about reading or critical thinking, were you?
RE:Geological artifact and not a historical one
by Bharathi on Apr 30, 2007 06:59 AM
typical missionary venom getting spewed from a semenary. Missionary venoms are afraid their mythical 'Adam' is getting the name of 'Ram' in Rama bridge. There are scitifc evidence..please read article above again, also ISRO has proved it, missionary jehadi. now go rape some nun and do ur usual stuff..complain indians screwed u ..and get funds from US, Europe..why do you guys always work aginst our nation?
RE:Geological artifact and not a historical one
by on May 01, 2007 07:10 AM
Sure, show me the evidence. No, a half backed article by a knicker-walla doesn't count, but a genuine, peer-reviewed article in a scientific journal.
Re: your other rants Bharathi dear, I am not sure if you know what a 'semenary' is- let alone know how to spell it. Trust me, venom is is not one of the liquids spewed out of it!!!
RE:Geological artifact and not a historical one
by Amit Pathak on May 01, 2007 06:42 PM
I hope U dont read Bible also....because till there is no scientific proof of Bible as well. So, stop reading Bible too.
RE:[object MouseEvent]
by on May 01, 2007 07:11 AM
Sure, show me the evidence. No, a half backed article by a knicker-walla doesn't count, but a genuine, peer-reviewed article in a scientific journal.
Re: your other rant Bharathi dear, I am not sure if you know what a 'semenary' is- let alone know how to spell it. Trust me, venom is is not one of the liquids spewed out of it!!!
RE:Geological artifact and not a historical one
by Raju Puducode on Apr 30, 2007 10:03 AM
Hope Hindus wake up from their slumber before it is too late. http://www.adventistreview.org/2001-1506/news.html http://www.adventistreview.org/2004-1533/news.html http://w ww.adventistreview.org/2001-1515/story1.html http://www.global-mission.org/htdocs/countries/India4.html
RE:Geological artifact and not a historical one
by Saibaskar Parthasarathy on Apr 30, 2007 08:29 AM
well buddy even if what you say is true why dont the 'secular' govt of india do some investigations? Modern science can easily determine if a structure is man made or not. What effort have we made to find out about one of our identity symbols.. Nothing!!!! In comparison look at the hard work of historians in west they have found the historical background of mytholiogical troy where as we go about destroying our past identities
RE:Geological artifact and not a historical one
by Saibaskar Parthasarathy on Apr 30, 2007 08:58 AM
Dont believe the mythology no probs but read this... http://www.answers.com/topic/rama-s-bridge Your assertion that it is a sand bar is wrong. So comparison with other natural structures is not correct. Force our historians to do some real work and find out about this bridge rather than dismissing it simply because it has something to do with hinduism
Every idiot give example of stupid NASA photograpg.why not isro photograph???????and whats the deal in investigating whether the bridge is man made or god made.I will tell u the answer,the answer is its not rama made but god made thats why we have no reference from scientific community in india but some silly nasa pics.We should go ahead with sethu and make some money from forien ships
Technically, secular means no religion in politics or government - hence the setusamudram project is secular (it doesnt account for any religious beliefs). Tarun Vijay does make a good point about the environmental damage dredging might cause. We havent been given the other side of the story, as to why the government chose a route that did not involve dredging (perhaps the sea was too shallow there for ships?). I'd suggest an extensive study into the environmental impact of dregding, and if found to be safe, then pick a route that does least damage to the sand-bars. After all, if we can dump loads of petro-chemicals into the Ganges and yet call it "mother", surely destroying a small part of a sand-bar (that is most probably a natural phenomenon, since it occurs in other places, such as Island reefs too) for $$ is nothing. Right?
BTW: Kalidas's description of the setu means nothing. It was around when Kalidas composed the work, so how hard is it for him to describe it? Kalidas came much, much after the Ramayana
RE:rama setu
by Jatindra Deo on Apr 30, 2007 11:40 PM
u fool kalidas didnt write ramyan , he wrote ramacharitramans...Ramayana was written by rishi valmiki in the treta yug ....dont talk on matter u dont understand or know ..u talk like a jerk
RE:rama setu
by sibby mathews on May 01, 2007 12:27 PM
You have apparently just started learning English. Else, you could not have missed the point Mr. Maximus was trying to make. It is this fact coupled with the mouthful of stink you were holding and that was waiting to burst at the first opportunity that caused you to make such a fool of yourself.
RE:RE:rama setu
by Amit Pathak on May 01, 2007 06:49 PM
Haan Bhai Mathew! tu to Maximus ke support me bolega hi. Because u have a very gud eason to do so......kya karein your name itself shows why are so much in support of Setu Samudram Project.
RE:rama setu
by sibby mathews on May 03, 2007 12:43 AM
I did not betray any sentiment in favour of the Setu project. Neither do I have any !
I was only reacting to this persons's outburst that showed his lack of understanding about what Mr. Maximus wrote and his prejudice that came on show due to it.
Harbouring prejudice of any kind is a sickening thing. And if such prejudice is combined in a person with a less than average intellect that cannot see beyond generalisations and stereotypical images such as common thoughts, likes and choices for all memebers of particular religions, then it is doubly pathetic.
But it is most symtomatic of a person's incapability to think if he displays such prejudices in a public forum and believes (as you appear to believe) that he has just delivered some knock out punch.
RE:[object MouseEvent]
by Maximus Decimus Meridius on May 03, 2007 03:49 AM
Amit Pathak, When a Pathak supports a Deo, that is OK, eh? That is not marathi unionism? Maximus is a movie character's name, a pre-christian roman character. I'm not X'ian, and all I really asked for was a study on the environmental impact of dredging and the reason why what Tarun vijay said about an alternate path existing wasnt feasible. I dont have to me a muslim or christian just because I dont agree with you.
RE:rama setu
by Maximus Decimus Meridius on May 03, 2007 03:11 AM
Jatindra Deo, Did I say Kalidas wrote Ramayana... Read the last line... I said "Kalidas came much, much after the Ramayana". That means Kalidas was born after Ramayana was composed. BTW, Maximus Decimus Meridius is a nom de plume. It's a latin name from a movie. And I have read the Ramayana, and parts in Sanskrit. I've studied Sanskrit in school for 5 yrs and translated many sections of Ramayana. I would know who wrote it.
Tarun Vijay has analysed the issue in a right perspective but the media overall would not take up the matter because the same is being taken up by the so called 'saffron brigade%u2019. Any thing spoken by this group 'automatically' becomes anti secular %u2013 why? As pointed out by the learned author, when an alternative is available in the nearby area why such a fuss? Legendry Justice Krishna Iyer and Justice Thomas are men of vision and far far away from the forces opposing the destruction of Ram Setu. Let us pray that a solution in the best interest and upkeep of ancient Indian History would be found out and for this the Indian Media, unfortunately busier with petty issues like Shilpa & Gere like episodes would come up fast. Vinod Tuli
the proposal is commerce-oriented. this is a matter of values. we need to preserve our rich Indian heritage, culture and values and not bow down to international businesses. our effort should be to strike a balance giving priority to our culture, tradition, faith, religions and most importantly our values and ethics. after all the navigational route is being followed for decades if not centuries. let things stay as they are. if it were to be destroyed, it could have been done at any time earlier. we need to realise that somethings are here to stay and simply accept the fact.
Hi I still couldn't understand how Rawan cross the sea without bridge, also Hanuman who can carry mountains on his back cross the sea without bridge and God Rama needs bridge to cross the sea. Secondly why they build a bridge if hanuman can carry huge mountains on his back he could simply carry Rams military on his back and fly. As a God he should know whether his wife was pure or not. Even he has send his wife in exile for the crime she has never committed under the pressure from janta for second time is also unjustified. It means it is possible he could do unjustification towards humans under the tens or pressure. All these factors always confused me regarding his status of GOD. Please do let me if anyone have answer for this%u2026%u2026%u2026%u2026.
RE:Ram Setu
by poorva ranjan on Apr 30, 2007 04:04 PM
hi i wud like to tel u tat when god comes to earth as a avtar or human being then he behaves as humans do Ram was also having human traits to some extent
RE:Ram Setu
by srini srini on Apr 29, 2007 11:14 PM
Good Question!..If you read the Ramayan..you would find that Ram always lived as a human..excpet at one point..the point is where it getting time for end of 14 year and Barath his devotee would enter fire if Ram does not return..this is the time Ravan unleashes his reserve force....now he converts 1/2 the army into Ram and another 1/2 to Ravan...then this reserve force implodes in minutes..this is the only instance he shows he is god.
For Ram during the Achavataram to stamp out Bali,,he took a dwarfh form and then one of his feet convered the entire earth and another the heaven...For him he does not needs a bridge for crossing into Lanka..he is just living as a human.
As far a hanuman brining the hill of herbs to rescue Ram from chemical weapons launced by Ravan..The Army was very huge..to carry on his back..
RE:Ram Setu
by Lakshmi Srinivas on Apr 29, 2007 06:43 PM
this is an opinion on a different topic. the article deals with the preservation of an ancient brige, which is a reality. wake up to the article and don't put in words to fill spaces.
RE:Ram Setu
by Purushottam Dayama on Apr 30, 2007 02:26 AM
There is no any bridge. It is all crap. When I went to Rameshwar and asked about Setu, people said there is none. Something has been said to be washed away years/decades ago.Suez canal brought the prosperity to Egypt. Indians have not a single a person to prove that any person has used setu to cross sea. When it is a matter of creating only half km wide channel why everybody is peeved? They can have well elavated bridge at that place which will allow anybody to cross channel (to sea!) but also allowing ships to save 1000s of kms. What so called preservists are interested in is to deny whole nation much revenue for sake of few believers in non existant structure.
RE:Ram Setu
by Maximus Decimus Meridius on May 03, 2007 03:32 AM
I dont know who you meant by X'ian dumbo, but I can assure you I am neither. That said: 1) The world is 14 billion years, as far as science can conclusively prove. Hinduism believes it is hundreds of billions (or even trillions), a clear over-estimation. (Of course, there are those who theorise cycles of creation and destruction, an analogy which Carl Segan draws to the hindu trinity's create-sustain-destroy concept), in which case, we are looking only at the current creation cycle. Others theorize that the universe will continually expand ad infinitum (it needs to contract to destroy itself and re-create).
The bible is clearly wrong. (Unless they meant a year on Uranus). Only fundamentalists believe that the earth is that young.
2) Another dichotomy, one of the many that I spoke of in my post. Jesus's death could have been significant only if he was both God and son of God. A mere mortal's sacrifice would have had no meaning, right? Hence, a father, son and holy spirit concept (Dunno what this spirit does).
Thank God for buddhism and advaita :D (Hope you get the irony there)
RE:[object MouseEvent]
by Maximus Decimus Meridius on May 03, 2007 03:35 AM
PS: The expanding universe has more data in support of it at present, and is hence the most accepted theory.
RE:Ram Setu
by rohit pathania on May 04, 2007 08:40 PM
By the way, there are several references to the age of the universe, which match the modern scientific estimates. Read the Mahabharata, Vishnupurana and Mahanarayanopnishad to confirm
RE:RE:Ram Setu
by Maximus Decimus Meridius on Apr 29, 2007 10:23 PM
Apparently, Rawan was a great man who gave in to the dark side. So, Rama and company (like Luke Skywalker and co) went in to destroy him. I guess Rama either got deiefied, or chose not to use his full powers. Just like Gods of all religions can control human behaviour and choose not to, and then implement rewards and punishment mechanisms to make people behave a certain way. (If you could control directly, and want ppl to behave a certain way, why not do it directly instead of using a method humans use to control people's behaviour?)
Ergo, the question you raised is a fundamental issue with religion itself. Gods of all religions do stuff that dont make sense. In the Old testament, God punishes his devotee, Job to prove a point to Satan. I believe the story goes that Satan said Job prays to you only because you keep him happy. So, God set about destroying Job's livelihood, wife and kids, and giving him nasty diseases, and yet Job's faith does not waiver. Does that mean that God is so petty?
There are so many examples of such dichotomy that I shouldn't know where to start. Religion defies logic. That's why it's not a science. It's an attempt to reconcile with things you dont understand without going through the process of extensive investigation.
RE:Ram Setu
by Bheja Try on Apr 30, 2007 12:04 AM
the holy bible is mostly copied from ramayana and mahabharata with some changes in contexts, personal views, extrapolations and distortions added to have the present concoction we have
RE:[object MouseEvent]
by Maximus Decimus Meridius on Apr 29, 2007 10:27 PM
Correction: I should have said, God allowed Satan to test Job's vitruosity. Satan does all the things, I blamed on God, but with god's permission (and hence culpability)
RE:Ram Setu
by Saibaskar Parthasarathy on Apr 30, 2007 08:43 AM
The problem is not belief.. the problem is what were the source of these beliefs. Question is not about Rama's capability of crossing the Sea but about historic significance like was there a king called Ram.. was there any events in the past that inspired these mythologies. For heaven sake our recorded history probably starts only around 500 BC and our history before to that is very vague and highly debatable. Probing into this bridge and the structures found in the sea near Dwaraka can throw some light on our past. Our history has several stories to tell we need to get past this mythological mist to know our past. Dont destroy the bridge but do investigate if it is man-made or not
RE:Ram Setu
by Amit Pathak on May 01, 2007 06:54 PM
Why u r trying so hard to understand Ram & Ramayana when your mind is not sufficiantly grown up. See, a DVD can nnot be played in a CD player as it is much supirior to the reading ability of CD player. Similarly Ramayana is much much bigger than your infant mind. So, stop thinking and start reading BIBLE & QURAN as they match with the level of your brain.
