if caste is not determined by birth and only by qualities, who used to decide who belongs to which caste? And if we want to continue it, who will decide this in future? And why should everyone accept this "authority"? And finally, if it is up to each individual, then my classification can be different anyone else's classification system, so nobody can asolutely belong to the same caste, by everybody's opinion. Isn't it?
On a personal note to, "Mark". Hi Mark, I came across a couple of your messages and liked them (here and the SC/ST reservation forum). Hope to see more of you around.
RE:Qualification based caste?
by Anand Iyer on Jun 06, 2007 10:48 AM Permalink
Good question Sharath Chandra. "Caste" is not based on qualities.Caste is bith-based. "Class" is determined by qualities. "Class" in Gita beacme "Caste' under Manu. Lomaharasha and his son Sootha Maharishi belonged to the so-called lower caste(in Manu terms) but they (by virtue of their knowledge) were acccepted as Chairpersons of assembly of rishis.(See Mahabharata). Thus, origibnally, it was "class"-Intellectual/Rulers/Traders/Labour. Then, Manu the fake made it "caste". Let us cast way caste.
RE:Qualification based caste?
by Sanjay K Pandita on Jun 06, 2007 10:17 AM Permalink
For any believer the religious order should be the highest order and adherence to it should be his fundamental duty. It is against the very basis of faith to question the authority and sanctity of religious order in a civil court. This is utter disreagrd for faith. The social order of Hindus is a simple division of labour, which is necessary for functionality purposes. As regards the question that who decides who does what. Any and all hindus can't claim ignorance of karm (deeds). The Hindu philosophy says that good deeds will be rewarded with a birth in some higher forms of birth. The relations between birth and deeds is unquestionable for any and all Hindus. So if a person is born Brahmin, it is solely becos of his deeds. And if her is born as a low caste, it is his deeds that are rewarded. The basis of Hinduism is birth form is a consequence of ones deeds. Changing one's religion can't change ones fate. See Dalit Xians.
RE:Qualification based caste?
by Sarath Chandra on Jun 06, 2007 08:11 PM Permalink
There are so many religious books in Hinduism. Which book gets precedence over which other? And how do we know whoever gives us this information is telling us the truth?
And you seem to be suggesting that by bad deeds in this birth, I will be born in a lower caste in the next birth. Isn't this caste based by birth? I don't remember what I have done in my previous birth and I have no reason to believe that I had been here earlier, is it just for me to be punished for that? It does look more like intelligent people trying to make willing slaves of non-intelligent people by propounding this karma theory from previous birth and all that? And what's wrong with Dalit christians' fate?
RE:Qualification based caste?
by Mark on Jun 06, 2007 04:41 AM Permalink
Thanks Sarath Unfortunately, I have to keep changing my name. I find it amusing to receive responses that are colored by the perceived religion thrust upon my name.
I find that whoever speaks logically on these boards is termed as either a Muslim and/or a Pakistani. At the same time the critics (rather fanatics) don't fail to point out that the key flaw in Muslims is inability to have a logical dialogue!
RE:Qualification based caste?
by Sarath Chandra on Jun 06, 2007 05:13 AM Permalink
Well, that is one of the reasons why I was reluctant to start blogging on these forums for a long time, even though I felt I had something to say most of the time. I was afraid that I would be abused or branded traitor etc.
However, I reasoned out that I am not giving enough credit to other human beings by thinking this way. So I decided I will give it a go. I am presently blogging on the premise that the most logical voice will reach the farthest.
Things have improved mostly since I was born according to me. So I think it is a ntural tendency of us to get better always. By everybody coming out honestly with their opinions and with goodwill, I think we speed up this process of the world getting better.
In my opinion, I think the best answer we can give to people who brand anybody who asks uncomfortable questions as muslin/pakistani is to answer it in goodwill that we are not and proceed to ask those questions as long as one feels they are reasonable. Sorry for the unsolicited opinion. Just wanted to let you know my thoughts.
RE:Qualification based caste?
by mariappan on Jun 06, 2007 10:40 AM Permalink
Dear Mark, The very fact that you are changing names is proof that either you are not courageous enough to stand up to other's views or your hyper sensitive to other's views. Either way i feel you are making a mistake. No one can determine who you are or what you are, it is only you and you alone know who and what you are, so why give so much prominence to what others say. It would be nice if you stick to one id, as that would give continuity for debate not only in this thread but also in others too.
