Show me which chapter no. and verse no. of Gita says that Shudras should not learn vedas? Or which verse of Gita says that Shudra who learns vedas should be killed?
In fact, there r verses in Gita which slam Vedas and Vedic ritualism. Yeah! Vedas contain lot of contradictions-a fact attested to by Gita. But show me contradictions in Gita-Quote Chapter and verse No.
Show me the Chapter no. and verse no. Valmiki Ramayan where this Sambooka episode is mentioned. In any case Ramayan is descriptive(what actually happened) and not prescriptive(what should be done).Gita says what should be done(i.e.prescriptive). In any case, one should prefer the latest over older things and therefore Gita and not ramayan should be followed if there is a conflict between them.
Show me contradictions in Gita.Quote Cahpter No. and Verse No.
RE:Chandu-Quote Chapter and verse nos.
by Chandu on Jun 05, 2007 02:25 PM Permalink
The Sambooka incident is not in Gita, it is in Ramayana. I cannot recollect the chapterno, nevertheless it is in the 'Kanda' in which Rama is on his way to Lanka where he encounters 'Sambooka'. There is no point in yelling out at the moderator (a typical brahmin tactic). In Manusmrithi (the shari-at of hindus) it clearly says to behead the Sudra who tries to learn Veda.I have no bias and if you can answer my questions, i am ready to accept hinduism, i am a free thinker trying to get the gist of all religions though i am born in an upper caste hindu family
RE:Chandu-Quote Chapter and verse nos.
by Girish on Jun 05, 2007 03:07 PM Permalink
There is a lot of practical evidence of Shuudras learning Vedas and being revered by Brahmins. Most of the 12 Azhwars of Tamil Vaishnavite tradion were from the "4th varna". One of them, Nammazhwar is celebrated as 'Vedam Thamizh Seidha Maaran (one who rendered Vedas in Tamil)", and another Thirumangai Aazhwar is said to have rendered in Tamil the 6 "Angas" of Vedam. Brahmin Tamils (Aiyangars) worship these Aazhwars everyday in TN's Vishnu temples.
RE:Chandu-Quote Chapter and verse nos.
by Anand Iyer on Jun 05, 2007 03:17 PM Permalink
I heard that Ramanujacharya had also opposed birth-based caste and untouchability. Girish, please throw some light on this as well.
RE:Chandu-Quote Chapter and verse nos.
by muthappan sathyanarayanan on Jun 05, 2007 04:51 PM Permalink
Anand you are right... Sri Ramanuja fought for those who was considered as lower caste.
he made a revolution that give all that we know to everybody, if he is in desire. don't see his qualification to give things...
RE:Chandu-Quote Chapter and verse nos.
by Anand Iyer on Jun 05, 2007 03:13 PM Permalink
Yeah! Lomaharsha and his son Sootha Maharishi were of low caste but they presided over the assembly of sages. Such was their vedic scholarship. Even Vyasa and Vidura were shudras.
RE:Chandu-Quote Chapter and verse nos.
by Chandu on Jun 05, 2007 03:33 PM Permalink
I am not the character who thinks being great to be born in the so called 'upper caste'. If you call me 'lower caste' I would be more happy. After all the great epics of Ramayana and Mahabharatha were written by 'Avarna' sages. The great 'Bhagawat Gita', the hindu crusaders here are talking about was the staggering creativity of an avarna called Vyasa. Even Krishna and all the 'gnan' which comes out of the characters of Mahabharatha are Vyasa's visions. Understand that first. Upper and Lower doesn't make any difference to me. It is better if the upper caste would grow a little 'upper' in their thoughts.My questions to Anand Iyer will be send soon since I am busy with my project work till weekend.
RE:Chandu-Quote Chapter and verse nos.
by Anand Iyer on Jun 05, 2007 02:33 PM Permalink
Excellent! That trashbook "Manusmrithi" which u call "the shari-at of hindus". contains all this kind of trash. But that Manu was a fake. He seems to be a Brahmin who wanted that Brahmin offsprings should get respect without achieving or doing anything. He was uncomfortable with the "class based on qualities and deeds" teachings of Gita. Manuvad is "dynastyvad". Manu smrithi should be dumped. Scientists like Opphenheimer and Einstein were inspired by Gita while we were stuchk with that trashbook Manu Smriti and lagged behind.
