we hindus have suffered right from mughal era to british invasion and then muslim betrayal during british rule, resulting in division of our own land.. and if that wasnt enough, innocent hindus were targetted in kashmir and forced to live as refugees in their own country and own land.. and even before gujrat,there was an incident happening in godhra where innocent hindus were targetted by muslim mob.. there was a time where hindus had to retaliate.. i know killing of innocent people (hindus or muslims or any human of any religion) is wrong, but what happened was a reaction to an action.
teesta setalvad,shabana aazmi, javed akhtar and my fav sonia ji, do u have guts to honestly disagree with me?
RE:muslim attrocities
by Mathew Mathews on Dec 05, 2007 10:14 PM Permalink
I do disagree. I agree with you that innocents shouldnt be killed in cold blood. Every human being has the right to a trial. I also think the trials shuld be faster rather than being dragged on for years on flimsy reasons. India has 5000 years of culture and civilization. WHat you have stated that Hindus be subjugated by muslims are a part of history when there was no democarcy. Now that we are, we should be thinking of unity not believing in retribution for atrocities by decadent kings. It was not just the muslim rulers, there were hindu rulers who did more atrocities. Thats the past. Think like a indian for a change and lets move forward.
RE:muslim attrocities
by rahul avasthi on Dec 05, 2007 10:24 PM Permalink
so mr matthew, you mean to say that time when hindus were thrown out of their homes in kashmir was also when there was no democracy.. the time during godhra incidence, were we without democracy?
yes, we need to live unitedly and move forward.. but you have to get rid of your pseudo secularism too.. it may be tough for you to accept your own shortcomings.. but let me remind you, i am also an indian who want to see my country progressing.. but pseudo secularists like you are taking it backwards.. you have to be a true secular to help country move forward.. but it seems that yr from a group for whom talking abt hindu rights is non secular, but when PM says that minorities should be given reservations, then he is secular? wah wah wah.. !!
RE:muslim attrocities
by on Dec 05, 2007 10:54 PM Permalink
Mr. Mathew - Hindu converted Christian, Why don't you teach your lessons to your dear Muslim brothers to stop hate against Hindus? They don't even wink before killing innocent Hindus (I have seen that in Ahmedabad several times in past). You can write nice replies but please go to some Muslim areas in Ahmedabad and then write something on brotherhood and everything else. If you go to some of their areas in Ahmedabad, they would kill you if you talk anything against them (that's how intolerant these people are). Good advice on paper but reality on ground is so different.
RE:muslim attrocities
by indriyo on Dec 05, 2007 10:23 PM Permalink
You make a point - but you are absolutely wrong in saying that Gujarat riots were a reaction to Godhra. I totally accept that terrorist activities have to be dealt with cold hands, but more importantly we need to gauge the support of minorities (and moderates). If thats not true, see the never-ending situation in Kashmir, Israel, Lebanon and Iraq (atleast Kashmir is improving among the lot). Military alone is not a solution for terrorism. As for your "reaction" point, why do you think such a barbaric reaction is justified in India? There are no cases of rape and murder of Muslims in the streets of New York after 9/11 or in London after 7/7 or in Madrid. India is as democratic and dignified as any of these countries. There is no way you can justify fundamentalism and violence whether it is the case of terrorism or riots. Such violent actions on minorities undermine our very roots of secularism and pluralism and destabilize peaceful democracy. Those riot gangsters have to be treated in the same way as the fanatics who were involved in the Godhra Train incident. We moderates only have to think that innocent Indians have been murdered in both incidents and not discriminate the victims as Muslims and Hindus.
RE:RE:muslim attrocities
by rahul avasthi on Dec 05, 2007 10:29 PM Permalink
well mr indriyo, see what US did after attack on its country.. it attacked a country and killed thousands of innocents (most of which must be muslims).. and you say that there was no case of murder of muslims? even the sikhs were attacked in US because of their turban resembling to what osama laden wears.. get yr facts corrected.. there is a reaction to every action.. and thats "reaction" i was talking of. and mind you, i am not justifying what happened as a reaction.. i was just referring to who initiated this.
RE:muslim attrocities
by indriyo on Dec 05, 2007 10:40 PM Permalink
Mr. rahul, I am sorry . US didnt attack Afganistan because it is a Muslim country. It is only because Talibans refused to handover the 9/11 perpetrators. Muslims murdered in Gujarat had absolutely nothing to do with Godhra. Take the case of Guantanamo HR violations. US Army has seriously punished all the soldiers involved in it. Now do you think Gujarat rioters have to be severely punished?
BTW, as for your Sikh attacks, they werent attacked. There was serious cases of discrimination in Airports, Visa counters, etc, which I agree is bad. But it is worlds apart from intentionally burning and raping women and children.
RE:muslim attrocities
by rahul avasthi on Dec 05, 2007 10:48 PM Permalink
sorry indriyo, your wrong again with your facts. do you think the aircrafts which were sent in afghanistan killed only terrorists? no, there were innocent people killed too.. and the numbers are much more than the innocents killed in gujarat.. i condemn severely on what happened in gujarat after godhra, but to be honest to myself, i would condemn that incident only after i condemn what happed with innocent people in godhra who were travelling in train.. and i cant understand why you are trying to defend US though? read newspapers, you will find news about sikhs being attacked by US residents a few days after 9/11 due to mistaken idendity.
RE:muslim attrocities
by indriyo on Dec 05, 2007 11:22 PM Permalink
ok my last attempt - I am not a defender of US foreign policies and I think that US is very biased againt Middle-East. I agree that US Military killed lot of civilians in Afganisthan and Iraq. My point is, they never killed Muslims living inside US. Same case as in London, although 7/7 bombers were UK citizens, they didnt rampage Muslim homes in Coventry. There were some discriminations and I have said they are very shameful - but noone set homes on fire or plan to murder their own citizens based on religion. You cannot argue that US military actions (as bad as they are) in Middle-East can be compared to Gujarat riots.
Since you talk a lot about facts - lets see the facts. Take a look at the "Final Solution" and see the statement of victims of the Train incident. Many of them had their Muslim neighbours attend the funeral of the victims. See the cases of Muslim victims - almost all of them said they dont carry any personal grudge against Hindus as a whole. It is very clear that certain fringe fundamentalist groups used this grotesque train incident as an opportunity to plunder minorities. No one who is civilized (incl victims on both sides) and has any decency will carry out such attacks.
I leave it here and let you conclude whatever perceptions you may intend. My conclusion is, I severely condemn both attacks on equal level and wish both the perpetrators to be punished severely, because I think innocent human lives whether it is Hindu or Muslim are equal as our moralities
