RE:why so much hatred?
by ravinandanprakash agrawal on Jan 25, 2008 12:37 AM Permalink
haan or ye bechare balak in logon ke liye jaan de rahe hain..ajab teri leela girdhari...
RE:MY OWN VIEW
by ravinandanprakash agrawal on Jan 25, 2008 12:41 AM Permalink
lost battle bro. Politicians aren't paid huge salaries. They make money. Also. I'm sure you know that corruption in army isn't any lesser than it is in judiciary, legislation or executive. Believe me Capitalism isn't working. Its a lost battle. As long as we have 30 soaps to chose from and 20 ways drive home we aren't going anywhere as a civilization. People will live pathetic lives in their houses or on the streets.
There is no doubt that the army men are going great for there nation. They are heros but think most of them join it as a just other employment and there is glamour aswell. The intense patriotism is created later during the training.
It is only the men at boarders and line of control who lead a very tough life. But rest of the army lives a very luxurious life. Regarding NDA candidates if u say they are given paltry salary, that will be wrong. They are given so many benefits, membership of clubs, house, subsidised everything, men at their service, etc.
An NDA official who has just passed out of NDA will be having a jawan at his service. (more than a personal assistant).
Whatever, I don't want to compare.!!!!
I am in total accord with the fact that they are doing great. I salute them.
Only thing I ask for is please don't compare civilian with military guy. Both are doing their job at their place.
RE:Please don't compare.
by Curious Onlooker on Jan 24, 2008 11:56 PM Permalink
you looser... thanks to those guys you can operate freely in your dirty call center job, browsing for p-o-rno... be thankful to them..
RE:Please don't compare.
by nikes on Jan 25, 2008 01:27 AM Permalink
First of all i don't work in call centre. 2. no job is dirty. 3. have u never browsed a porno. you r surely a looser who just accuses other. look into urself dear. 4. Just don't be an onlooker, get into the debate and make good points and substantiate it. 5. I may be wrong at certain things but if every body was right why will there be any discussion or debate.
RE:Please don't compare.
by deepak nair on Jan 25, 2008 12:11 AM Permalink
lol ..u r quite naive if u think u get membership of clubs for free...plz dont think that we treat jawans as servants...and u think life in the borders is tuff..just be in a ship in the middle of the sea and get a telegram that ur family member has expired...and u know that there is no way u will even see the dead body as the earliest u can get to ur place is 20 days...that my dear is fauj..u on ur chair may lose the job but such times do u think job is more important...i am a qualified engineer and i have no probs with u earning lakhs but i deserve to be paid for what i do... ..as javed akhtar said so well..why do u keep saying fauj mein josh hain, pride hain...why cant u say good pay bhi hain.. .. ...u think making a lady a widow and children fatherless is a choice that we have..i dont think so..if so u wud have been under musharraf in 71 ...living like a beggar...and not in a call centre.. .. ..remember that for your today a soldier had given up his tommorrow.. .. ..think sonny boy.. ..thinkk... ...
RE:Please don't compare.
by nikes on Jan 25, 2008 01:19 AM Permalink
no one gets anything for free. u have exactly made my point. " i have no probs with u earning lakhs but i deserve to be paid for what i do"...then why this article says "men will be ready to die for me, but not for you".
RE:RE:Please don't compare.
by nikes on Jan 25, 2008 12:59 AM Permalink
I ain't against anything (pay hike..facilities etc.) except that there is no point in comparing two different things.
military is military, civilian is civilian.
And why do you forget those farmers, workers in industries, general worker, engineers who are underpaid they don't even need to face the bullet of an enemy - they also die without food out hunger out of unemployment.
The only point i am raising is don't compare the two things, they are different. Do whatever you want to improve the situation of either of them. But don't compare them.
RE:Please don't compare.
by shantanu sharma on Jan 25, 2008 12:18 AM Permalink
DEAR NIKES IN A KNOWLEDGED WORLD DO YOU THINK SOME ONE WILL REALLY JOIN THE ARMED FORCES JUST FOR EMPLOYMENT AND GLAMOUR? WELL THERE IS MORE MONEY IN A CALL CENTRE THAN WHAT YOU GET IN AS A COMMISIONED OFFICER. AS FOR GLAMOUR, ARE YOU AWARE THAT IT COMES AT A PRICE WHICH GOES FROM THE SAME PALTRY SUM THAT THE GOVERNMENT BESTOWS. THE CLUBS AND SUBSIDIES ARE HARDLY COMMENSURATE AND DO TAKE A LOT OF EFFORT BEING MAINTAINED AND KEPT ENVIABLE STATE. THE MANICURED LAWNS PEOPLE ENVY ARE NOT AT THE EXPENSE OF THE NATIONAL EXCHEQUER BUT THE RESULT OF EXTENDED HOURS POST WORKING HOURS IN THE SUN SO AS TO MAKE HIS SURROUNDING CLEAN (EVEN A DOG DOES THAT) AS A PART OF HIS CIVIC DUTY IN THE MANTLE OF A RESPONSIBLE CITIZEN. PLEASE GET YOUR FACTS CORRECT ABOUT TENURES AT THE FORWARD POSTS AND AT THE BORDER.(AN AVERAGE SOLDIER SPENDS ATLEAST 18 YEARS AT THE BORDER BEFORE THE AGE OF 45). CONSIDERING THAT YOU JOIN NDA AT 17 THAT MEANS OUT OF 27 YEARS HE SPENDS ATLEAST 18 YEARS AWAY FROM HIS FOLKS. THATS A MINIMUM TWO YEARS AWAY FOR EVERY ONE YEAR WITH HIS FAMILY. THIS MEANS HE GETS A HOUSE FOR HIS FOLKS ONLY FOR 1 OUT OF 3 YEARS. "ID RATHER SY THANK YOU" THE MEN AT HIS SERVICE ARE NOT HIS EMPLOYEES AND ARE NOT SUBSERVIENT NOR SERVANTS BUT ARE COMRADES.NO SERVANT WILL GIVE HIS LIFE FOR YOU HOWEVER MUCH YOU PAY HIM. THERE ARE NO JAWANS AT SERVICE POST PASSING OUT BUT SAHAYAKS WHO ARE FAMILY. IT IS ONLY THE LOVE OF THE COUNTRY THAT MAKES ONE DO WHAT ONE DOES IN UNIFORM.
RE:RE:Please don't compare.
by nikes on Jan 25, 2008 01:08 AM Permalink
Thank you for correcting me on certain facts.
Perhaps you would know better. But i do believe that it is during the training and latter part of life that a soldiers patriotism increases by leaps and bounds.
At the time of selection that is NDA selection, a young teen aged guy is hardly aware of what he is undertaking. I had also been to NDA selection process at Bangalore for Army. Unfortunately i was rejected but the level of awareness and frame of mind of most of the candidates that i got to know was same as i described above.
While economic patriotism is a good thing, the other form of patriotism, fighting for one's country and killing is downright nonsense. Planet Earth is the home for Human beings, so why segregate each other in the name of caste, religion, region and countries? It is stupid and sometimes makes me think that all politicians and men in power are like high school bullies, boasting of their power over others. To satisfy this craving for ego satisfaction and power, wars are fought and people are killed senselessly for the policies of their leaders. Is this Patriotism? When I was growing up I used to think that dying for the country was an excellent thing, atleast that's what the teachers make you believe. Now we have a misguided youth wanting others to die for the country. Why do you want to die? If you love your country, take part in sports, India has never won an individual olympic gold, surely if some of these youths tried we could win. Instead they dream of killing and dying. Here's what Einstein said... Heroism on command, senseless violence, and all the loathsome nonsense that goes by the name of patriotism - how passionately I hate them! ~Albert Einstein
RE:Patriotism
by asdfg on Jan 25, 2008 02:16 AM Permalink
hey mr enterprise, economic freedom doesn't come till one has the freedom that Indian constitution provides. These soldiers are the reason for your economic freedom. Don't be so naive as to not understand this concept. And if economic patriotism is so dear to you, be a brave soldier for that, move out of India and go to some UNDERDEVELOPED country in AFRICA/MIDDLE EAST and become a torch bearer for it. You guys with good education sometimes become hypocrite, thinking creating economic freedom is the only way for india to progress and underestimating the reason why you can do it. It is because of MILITARY branch you can do stuff freely. Hope sense prevails in your outlook and you change your thinking. God Bless our FORCES.
RE:Patriotism
by Onie on Jan 24, 2008 11:16 PM Permalink
What is economic patriotism? If it is stoning KFC and McDonalds, then it is silly and pointless. In contrast, the willingess to defend your country and to die for it is noble and virtuous and I respect those who have the guts and commitment to choose that path. What is not noble - and this is what Einstein referred to - is blind patriotism, which champions not the instinct to protect your own but the instinct to pillage and suppress others.
Think back to the World War II. The Nazis chose war for the sake of war, because they believe they had a right to rule and others the duty to serve. That kind of patriotism is indeed a curse. In contrast, the allies fought for human liberty and freedom, the right not to be subjugated. That kind of patriotism is why the free world survived.
RE:Patriotism
by sabyasachi ghosh on Jan 25, 2008 12:21 AM Permalink
Dude, where do you live? Everything said and done, we did end up forming countries and borders - an outcome that followed 'natural human instincts' of power and survival from day one of our existence. If we were to open our borders on so foolish ideology non-conforming to way Humans behave and think, soon we will have Taliban ruling our country with Hizbul in your backyard. The fact of the matter is that borders DO exist and you need a bunch of people to protect it because it will be breached... and they need motivation to do it whatever it takes to get them that... a few words, some beliefs.. let it be. They are doing what pseudo-intellectual fools like you can never imagine.. you'll sh**t in your pants. Anyways, if you want to be as idealistic, least of all for some popular line by Einstein - GO LIVE ON MARS!! No Borders there!
RE:Why
by swamy on Jan 24, 2008 10:59 PM Permalink
atleast they dont get paid 50k to sit up their ass and code for a gora, learn to respect a**hole, u will pi** at the sight of blood
RE:Why
by sabyasachi ghosh on Jan 25, 2008 12:24 AM Permalink
What if no one wants to take that risk?? suddenly some fine morning every army men quits and wants to work like YOU do. Where do you see your country after that in the next few months, even days?
RE:Why
by Onie on Jan 24, 2008 11:20 PM Permalink
If I ask you to risk your life for Rs. 8500 a month would you? I thought not. These guys do not because they are motivated by the money but by love for their country. That is why the hype, Mr. Halaku. The nation owes them a debt it cannot repay just by the wages it pays them. Got it?
RE:Why
by Attatar Yena on Jan 24, 2008 11:15 PM Permalink
Are you out of your mind ?? or you simply plain stupid ?? You seemed to have misunderstood the article. Let the jihadists and other sort of militants first put a gun at you head and then we will see if you still sing the same tune. It is easy to talk about philosophy but arm chair philosophers are dime a dozen these days who dont even understand a simple fact that to talk like Einstein you got to be like Einstein first. Further, you are quoating Einstein out of context ( another trait of armchair experts). Einstein said this in the context of holocaust and oppression of jews by nazis. If you cannot contribute to the country fine but atleast dont ridicule others who are doing their bit ( actaully more than what most of us are doing.)So STFU
I am a little concerned that a person should consider a career based on how he could be involved in causing the deaths of other people. I am sure that there are better reasons for serving one's country, for officers and for enlisted people. I just hope nobody who is considering becoming one of the "men"this future officer is going to lead in battle reads this article.
RE:there must be a better reason
by David Jacob on Jan 24, 2008 10:47 PM Permalink
then again it is upto the government th provide a few thousand better reasons each for being in the defence forces......these days the reasons why anyone does anything are little brightly colured things, with mahatma's picures on them
RE:there must be a better reason
by David Jacob on Jan 25, 2008 12:21 AM Permalink
To Ranjith Parakkal
Now why would you want to know how the weather is in karachi ? Could you be thinking of moving your illiterate butt there ?
Take a moment and read what was written; I was saying that there were better reasons for someone to join the army than just saying he could order other people to end their lives on his sayiing so; and in an additional post I said it was upto the government to improve the pay and service conditions in defence.
Perhaps you played your communal card a little early here; yes india is home to people of other religions than yours; and you can bait them all you want;but that does not solve the real problems we have
When the best and most dramatic reason an underpaid junior officer gets to give on his career choice is that other people would one day , die for him - i thought that would strike some people as strange.... but I guess i could be wrong
but think -armies require non-commissioned ranks too ; and these reqiuire real people - as real as you and I.....
RE:there must be a better reason
by sabyasachi ghosh on Jan 25, 2008 12:30 AM Permalink
you Concerned??????!!!!! How would you rate this concern on a scale of 1-10? Now imagine the entire army quits and starts working like you do... now rate your concern in this situation? Make any sense? Anything that takes to motivate them to keep YOU safe, let them be. Concern?? hah! Dont care a dead rats ass for your concern!
RE:there must be a better reason
by David Jacob on Jan 25, 2008 12:52 AM Permalink
"Anything that takes to motivate them to keep YOU safe, let them be. Concern?? hah! Dont care a dead rats ass for your concern!'
It may have escaped your notice that socialism is dead; salaries and money are important things in the world; that officers do apply in some numbers to resign their commissions for jobs elsewhere
yes it is something to be concerned about.
BTW, I am not familiar with the asses of rats,dead or otherwise -which are obviously the objects of much interest to yoour good self.
RE:there must be a better reason
by Onie on Jan 24, 2008 11:22 PM Permalink
You have misunderstood the quote. Deliberately or not, I can't say. He is saying that he is going to be in career that commands the kind of fierce passion that makes men put their duty before their lives. Contrast that to the disillusionment and demotivation that is so common in the corporate sector. That is the point, not a gleeful anticipation of causing future deaths.
All civilians should creat pressure on the Got. for raising the emoluments of the armed forces as we can live peacefully as a result of their performance. MPs and MLAs are fetching cream and soldiers are getting toned milk. Govt. should also forced to supply the latest equipments to the armed forces as due to the lack of lower quality of weapons China had bitten us in the past.
RE:Thanks to all well wishers of the soldiers
by ravinandanprakash agrawal on Jan 25, 2008 12:34 AM Permalink
he he..."so that we can live peacefully"..he he... he he.... he he... aag lagi hamri jhupadiya main hum gayein malhaar...
A culture of spite and ridicule prevails in middle class India, thanks to highly liberalized activists who constantly denigrate the system and establishment. Movies, thru articles & journalists are bent upon turning India into a cowardly nation, with only appeasement in mind. This is highly dangerous for an emerging nation whose base is not yet consolidated.
RE:Indian Media unPatriotic
by Onie on Jan 24, 2008 11:29 PM Permalink
Dude, read my comments above. I respect the army and those who serve in it immensely. At the same time I also believe in the constitution, rule of law, freedom of speech, etc. and I regularly speak out against fundamentalists - Islamic or the Hindutva brigade. That makes me a liberal in your book I guess - but it doesn't make my love for this country any less than yours. It is just that I believe that the constitution of our country should come before interest groups or religious interests. Macho shortcuts such as engineering riots to kill your opponents are anti-constitution and so anti India.
So hope you don't club all secular liberals into the same group. Some of us hate Modi but also the CPM and also the Congress; and we do love the Indian army and take pride in India.
RE:men dying for me?
by indian on Jan 24, 2008 10:12 PM Permalink
What Earn ? He said the absolute fact. They can give supreme sacrifice for the sake of our freedom and safety. Don't criticize them, thats called anti national. Be respectful and show ur gratitude.
RE:RE:men dying for me?
by ravinandanprakash agrawal on Jan 25, 2008 12:05 AM Permalink
I did criticize that statement and i still maintain that "20 people will die for me" is not the right attitude. Why should you expect someone die for you? I find it an arrogant statement from officer. The right attitude is "i will die for my family". I'm sure I am singing a solo here..
RE:RE:men dying for me?
by ravinandanprakash agrawal on Jan 25, 2008 12:58 AM Permalink
I see your point Kartik. May be you are right. Still I don't like the statement itself. That's not an achievement in my opinion. Two reasons. I find it an arrogant statement. 2nd no one dies for anyone and a 21 years old officer should know this basic fact of life.
RE:men dying for me?
by eco con on Jan 24, 2008 10:17 PM Permalink
Agarwal hain to aise hi sochega. After all, what can you expect from a Marwari? Ever seen any Gujju or a Marwari serving in an army? Ever heard of Lieutenant General Agarwal or Rear Admiral Jignes Shah? What do they know about dying for one's country? They are ready to die only if Sensex plunges.
RE:RE:men dying for me?
by asdfg on Jan 25, 2008 02:25 AM Permalink
i did hear of a flight lieutenant Mr. Mehta, who happens to be my brother. By the way I am a Gujju and so is my brother.
RE:RE:men dying for me?
by ravinandanprakash agrawal on Jan 25, 2008 12:23 AM Permalink
do you know gandhi was gujrati baniya? i dont blame you. We all make the same mistakes. Speak without knowing. By the way neither am I gujju nor a marwari.
RE:RE:men dying for me?
by Attatar Yena on Jan 24, 2008 11:17 PM Permalink
You couldnt have said it better dude !!! No wonder Somnath temple was targetted so many times in history.
