This just proves that politicians can do anything for votes. The fact that they cannot agree (not even mention in their talks) for granting reservations on economic basis rather than caste basis make me nuts.
The only pride of India in recent years was India's advancement in Software industry and the good schools like IITs and IIMs which world is talking about. And with the help of this so called learned foolish rusty politicians, we will even nullify one of them.
It makes you laugh, when you read about the 'intimidation' that our pro-reservation friends face. Is it because in their heart of hearts, they also realize that their protest is phoney, and it is only to support the privilege that they already have. These so called OBC friends of ours in AIIMS are already there because of their merit, why do they now want undue and undeserved favours? It amazes me that we are now feeling proud in calling ourselves backward!
RE:Pro-Reservationists at AIIMS
by ramakant on May 27, 2006 06:42 PM Permalink
The difference is not 2-3 marks as you point out. It is 10-20%.
If you say that a poor man living in rural area doesnot have facility to compete, then why favour resrvation? Why dont ask the government to give this poor some money so that he can also compete? That shouldnt be based on 'caste'. It should be based on poverty.
Even in the case of poor, they should be given money to support, not 'marks'.
RE:Pro-Reservationists at AIIMS
by Bruno on May 27, 2006 09:48 PM Permalink
Please note that a Forward Caste Student in AIIMS gets PG seat even when he scores 20 %
Where as SC has to score more than 60 %
They have something called as Institutional Quota... WHich also is totally against merit. Why are the AIIMS doctors not opposing it
If Rediff is a honest site, they will allow this comment
RE:Pro-Reservationists at AIIMS
by rajan on May 27, 2006 11:23 PM Permalink
hey, u seem to be beneficiary of quota system. do u know what hard work is? do u understand the agony of losing an IIT/IIM seat by 1/2 or 1/4 mark? A differnece 3-4 marks is huge in merit competition. don't try justifying OBCs. Asking for reservation is literal begging. Do you really want that or do you want to become self-dependent? If you want to be self-dependent, then ask the govt. for good primary education and not talk of silly upper/lower castes. By the way, there are also poor uppercastes in villages. What about them?
U seem to be from tamilnadu. The pro-reservation polticians including FM chidambaram quotes Tamilnadu as example for development through reservations which has been there for more than 15 yrs with 69% reservations.If Tamilnadu has really developed, why are they not abolsihing the reservations as a whole or atleast pass a law so that only one geneartion can avail the reservations. They will not do it because of dirty votebank politics. If the OBCs are really concerned about other fellow OBCs, why don't they voluntarily leave using the reservations for second and third generations? Can you answer these?
RE:Pro-Reservationists at AIIMS
by Rohan on May 28, 2006 01:17 AM Permalink
Before you compare the marks of the OBC student who has less facilities with a general student with more facilites why dont you think the reverse way. There are more general class student who are not economically well than that of OBC student. Why does the pro quota public think of them. Instead of adovcating for the quota for OBC, SC and ST one should fight for quota for Economically Backward Class. The argument you gave will be better for Economically Backward Class people not for OBCs.
Definitely, as our HRD minister rightly pointed out there is too much hype about the issue.I suspect these doctors who are sitting in street doing this for their own selfish cause. Because it avoids largely oming from otehr sections to the premier institute whish so afr has been enjoyed by rich and only educated mass. What do they all mean merit? If you look at the selection mark there might be only hardly 2 or 3 marks difference between general and OBc candidate? Do they classify with this three mark as a criteria to define a merit? Think a student who studies in aremote area and who is poor do not have the same facility as the student whose father and mother is alraedy a dcotor. Obviously they give all facility to their offspring and they get this 3 extra marks based on that. For this three mark do you want apoor person to suffer who has put all fight right from the beginning of his life periled for just another few marks! Indeed all those fight against reservation should feel shamed for clsoing d door for a person from poor back ground. Also all of you must realise the OBC structure is comprising of both caste and economical back ground. Kudos to HRD minister
RE:Reservation A curse or a Wish!
by Mayank on May 28, 2006 02:50 AM Permalink
Firstly, you need to get your facts correct which are wrong:-
1) Its not a difference of 2-3 marks, IITs, AIIMS, IIMs it goes well 15-20% percentage
2) If you still say category students are nearly at par with general student, then can you explain why more than 25% of them still not able to complete their degree in IITs and Medical college. Once admitted they have same faculty, highly subsidised education and free books and 4 years. Still question is they are not able to clear it. Can you explain why?
3) Most of the general category students in medical or engineering come from middle class whose parents are not doctors or rich class people. If you don't believe me then interact with students of premier institutions.
4) If you care of backward classes and under-priveledged students you should demand better primary and secondary education from ARJUN SINGH
RE:Reservation A curse or a Wish!
by Jigar Thakkar on May 28, 2006 01:15 AM Permalink
dude, the protest is not against "reservations for poor" but "reservations on the basis of caste" AND i'd like you to know that poverty is not only suffered by the OBC's,SC's,ST's and other backward castes but also by the people who belong to the so-called "upper caste". Are there any reservations for such people? The answer is NO.Have u ever thought how will the children of such poor-upper-caste people be able to access quality education?The answer is "NO",isn't it? But they still get into IIM's and IIT's on the basis of MERIT and NOT on the basis of some filthy reservation. To sum it up, i'd just like to say: Guys STOP begging for reservations.
RE:Reservation A curse or a Wish!
by Harry Rakhraj on May 29, 2006 02:43 AM Permalink
I agree with Debajan:he says 2/3 of the MPs don't have a college degree,I go further.Over 90% of them are not intellectually empowered to decide on an issue of this magnitude.Democracy?What democracy when a matter of such national importance isn't even put to public debate before making it into a law?As Sam Pitroda rightly says:"the 93rd ammendment only empowers the Govt to pass the Bill:it,in no way makes it obligatory for the Parliament/Gov to do so".
RE:Reservation A curse or a Wish!
by saby on May 29, 2006 10:35 PM Permalink
What didnt u gave the answer to urself..its not the reservation we need basic ground level educatuion and support for poor people..and the diff is no 2-3 marks ..its 15-20 % and in some case even more...so ask for more facitlies ..free education ,..scholarship ..and support ..y ask for reservation ..now waht are u ashamed of working hard and getting there with all the facilities ..this rotten thinking of congress menatlity that reservation is the only answer will bring India back to old ages..we need more support and financial backing for poor and downtrodden castes to let them get up ..not rservation to get there ..its just like telling the people like u that even though u can work hard ..u shd not ..even though u can study but u shd not ..
RE:Reservation A curse or a Wish!
by Kaushik Das on May 28, 2006 09:24 PM Permalink
What do you eman by >>or this three mark do you want apoor person to suffer <<? Is not qualifying for a medical institute the same as suffering? And who said OBCs are poor? And why is it that you think OBC candidate will always get 3 marks less than the general candidate? And you call us casteist?
On one Paragraph,I wd like to Comment. Merit equals Captitatin fees & NRI Etc
1.Capitation fees is charged by Medical colleges run by Politicians or their Proxies.You must question the Rationale of sanctioning authorities,who are none other than these corrupt politicians.Classic example in Karnataka,there is a constant fight between the COMED & ppl in power. 2.Now days Banks are extremely Liberal in sanctioning Loans to students who wish to study abroad.Why OBC students are not availing such facilities.Can any one answer.Even engineering students take 15 Lakhs of Loan to do Masters in USA/UK.Nothing stops students to avail such facilities. 3.Coming to NRIs Paying Capitation fees,It is a sacrifice made by their Parents to educate their Sons/daughters.They hv struggled hard to pay for it.Apart from that who are the people who permitted to pay Capitation fees,It is our Beloved Politicians,who need Dollars for their Merry Go arround. 4.It is my sinciere plea to the students who are pro/anti reservations,Pl throw these dirty Politiians out incl so called Communists,because Country was moving fwd,they want to take it back,so that the can buy votes.Pl prevent selling Votes.
RE:Quota the Other side of the story
by debanjan on May 27, 2006 06:27 PM Permalink
y attack the knowledge commission??? knowledge commission is a puppet in the hands of the government..if the verdict of the commision does not count ..then for wat the hell r they there..the commission rejected the quota proposal by 6-2 voting but still it is going to be implemented ...wat does it prove??? the commision is powerless ..its unfortunate that decisions on higher education are made by a 2/3 majority of MPs ..some of whom might not have a college degree ..such is the state of affairs in the country..wat the doctors r doing is absolutely rite ..the patients mite have to suffer temporarily for this ..but if the quota system comes into play tomorrow then the patients will have to suffer permanently of bad treatment..and then the future generations of the country r not going to forgive them for that .
RE:Quota the Other side of the story
by anshulbangalore on May 28, 2006 06:17 PM Permalink
Hello major,I am from a forward caste,but i feel that we are in this position becoz we have been arrogant for centuries,looked down upon lower castes,are we right in doin this.We have made fun of lower castes by protesting and how?selling bananas like hawkers and sweeping roads,why?becoz of our mindset,becoz of our arrogance.Brahmins are in a sorry state of affairs,i agree,but are they not to be blamed,they out arrogance,have for centuries heaped insults about our lower caste brethern.Are we upper caste the sole repository of knowledge and air conditioned comfort jobs,lets shed this arrogance,cummon wats wrong in a brahmin/uppercastes claning toilets/drains,are we not supposed to do this,many may ask will i be able to do this,my answer is lets all upper castes do it and firstly drop arrogance,which is the primary reason for this situation.The attitude of brahmins as mellowed down i agree,but guess,how for centuries they would have played truant with the caste tag they have.EVERY ACTION HAS A EQUAL AND OPPOSITE REACTION.Lets make them lower castes more confident,let them also join the main stream,they will see reason over a period of time and reservation will one day cease to exist.
I support PM on increasing seats. Only, it must be done (a) in a phased program as per viability. (b) Secondly, the creamy layer among SC/ST/OBC must be identified and excluded from eligibility for reserved quota.
Education is our strength. There is wide potential in education system due to globalization. Many jobs are coming up globally for Indian engineers, technocrats and professionals including doctors. We have to increase education institutes progressively and invite corporate style public investments in educational institutes, which will provide education on payment of prescribed fees. Such institutes must be free to determine fees, as the market conditions will automatically limit the number of students and viability.
Our students are going to UK, USA, Newzeland, Australia, Russia and so on. They can afford higher fees if good education is available in India. Not only that. We will have students from the very countries where our students are going because of paucity of domestic seats. Education, IT, medical tourism, jewelers and handicrafts are future growth areas for India.
Shortage of teachers can be overcome by increasing retirement age to 65. Air India pilots too now work up to 65 years for overcoming shortage. Students learn more in small coaching classes rather than in sprawling school and college campuses (if you call that an infra structure). I do not think that educational standards will get diluted vastly. Yes, transient set back will be there. But that will be just a breather in marathon race.
I feel that students must think clearly and try to settle for best solution rather than confrontation. Even armies do tactical withdrawals. This will not be an end of the road. Negotiation table is more important than stubborn demand - which are unlikely to be met at least till present constitution remains effective. You can fight governments but not the constitution by strikes.
Constitution will change in due course. However best course for present is talk and not confrontation. Unfortunately caste is not only a vote bank but still is a social system as can be seen in matrimonial columns in any news paper/portal or magazines. Cast will go, but not overnight. Doctors must resume duty and form a steering committee for negotiations. They should not hold innocent patients to ransom. If they behave irresponsibly to patients who may die for lack of treatment, what is wrong if some of them get lathi blows?.
Medical education is among highly subsidized by govt. One would expect doctors to behave in decent dignified manner befitting elite members of society. From what we see, they too are behaving in unruly fashion not becoming of true professionals. Merely wearing white coat does not make them honorable. While I do not justify lathi charge on medicos, but bringing city traffic to a stand still or neglecting patients is not dignified behavior. There have been clashes between pro and anti reservists in Patna and students used lathi among themselves as seen on TV. Such irresponsible behavior must stop.
Two honorable members of knowledge commission resigned. For what?. The law of the land is decided as per constitution. If 3/4 majorities of MPs decide, the constitution can be amended. Not by protests and hunger strike. Even PM and president are powerless. they can not change the constitution by themselves.
Why attack Arjun singh?. Attack MPs nationwide and let 2/3 rd of them remove reservation from constitution. That is not easy. Two NKC members should withdraw their resignations and work for betterment of India as a whole. If in doubt, get ruling from Supreme Court about legality but do not force issue on streets. Doctors should follow the Hippocratic oath of ethics and serve human kind. That is our primary sacred duty towards mankind.
There was a time when India was world-renowned learning center. We can become one soon again if we shed conservatism. let us bring back the glory of the past. Let us be soldiers of progress and not get deterred by temp set backs.
RE:india - a learning center for tomorrow
by alok on May 29, 2006 11:17 AM Permalink
Let the MPS and Ministers and PM/President have their doctors, drivers, airplane pilots, security personnel from the reservations and not based on merit.
Sir, I am neither a proponent of a Brahmin nor a Lower Caste person. The traditional caste system mentioned in Bhagvat Gita was based on the skills/profession one took up. Today a Brahmin Cleanining the Sulabh complex is a Dalit and a Dalit sitting in South Block or North Block is a Brahmin. So let us not divide the country based on the caste a person is born into. The spirit of the constitution is to help the backward castes to find their rightful place in the society. Let economic criteria be the sole and only yardstic for reservations. It is high time that Supreme Court gives a ruling on this and enable constitutional amendment to ensure that this two-bit politicians do not play around with caste and creed. A mulla in a mosque need not be pampered because he is from the minority community when a Brahmin is forced to clean the Sulabh complexes because of economic compulsions. Sudheer
This only shows that the politians who support reservation are doing it only for vote Bank. When neither the management nor the media or their own collegues support, it clearly shows that they have started realising the after effect.
Instead of just giving them the 27%, the Govt. should allow them to face challenge and try to find out how capable they are for 10 years. Review their progress every tw0/three years. Definitely they will progress.This is in the interest of the Nation as a whole. The Supreme Court also should take into account all thse things.
See these words of a doctor posted here--"Sivanand", complained that: "The media has no time for us because the media is upper caste. How can he say that media is of upper caste. Does media have a caste too??? A educated doctor is saying this, very strange. We respect media and believe that it is free from all caste, breed, rich, poor and above all. It helps in rasing voice against problems in society rather that making problems. IT IS WITH TRUTH. These sentences coming from people like Sivanand, just reveal the fact that at last our GREAT POLITICIANS are becoming successful in partioning of our India. I have one question to person like Dr. Sivanand: What is the caste of american, british, french ... media, are they brahmin, kshatriyas, vaishyas???
Students in higher Institutions of learning like IIT can easily expose the OBC leadership by demanding that there should be some fool-proof mechanism to weed out the rich among the OBC , getting into IIT on OBC quota and the quota should be filled purely by very poor and meritorious OBC candidates. In the name of Social Justice , the filthy rich of the OBC Kulaks are getting all the privileges, denying their own brethren their share.Intellectuals in IIT should come forward to fight for the economically deprived among the OBC. I have a suggestion. In the application form, if the applicant mentions OBC, he should not be considered outside the OBC quota.As the OBC quota will be only for the poor, these wards of richer OBC will get thrown out, unless they are good enough for merit quota. Please, educate all students of SC/ST, that your agitation is not against them.Because of mis-handling, the OBC kulaks are able to mislead the SC/ST and gang up. The reality , atleast in the South, where Reservation has been in effect for so many years, the worst oppressors of the SC people and even the poor among the OBC are the OBC kulaks.Nopolitical party speaks for the poor OBC.
