Guys...who knows IIT/IIMs in the USA/UK ? Just these guys start suffering from complex due identity crisis. These megalomaniacs return back to India simply to RULE and expoit....Had they been patriot they would have stayed back in the US/UK and made remittances to pay back to Indian Taxpayers.
RE:NRI
by raj singh on May 15, 2008 09:09 PM
i agree ,i stay in states and my brother is from IIT...AND HE SAYS THE SAME THINGS...HE HAS GOTR WORSE JOB THAN ME...NO BOPDY HERE KNOWS IIT OR IIM...ITS NOT EVEN IN ANY RANKING...ALLL THE RANKINGS ARE CREATED BY INDIANS THEIR SELF...FOR AMERICANS..INDIA IS STILL AN OUTSOURCING COUNTRY FOR TELE CALLERS
Not just IITians but the NRIs are returning to India due to falling USD->INR conversion.They have earned a lot,now they think whats the use if the USD further falls,we may sustain losses in Rupee conversion,so its better return to India,ivest that money in Indian booming market and at the same time work in India as the salary packages in India are also competant. No one comes back for charity or for social work or even for the sake of patriotism. Everyone is opportunist & just want to exercise the opportunity they come across....
RE:Opportunist NRI
by tamil on May 15, 2008 02:16 PM
Aadi Manav u r right... these guys never done any charity or social work.. they will start a company & will say they employ x ppl(its a social work for them) and will ask Govt for all Tax rebates... exploite Indian manpower ...
Its not IITian who support India or Indian Industries... think they r famous for supporting many US companies for dollars..
RE:Opportunist NRI
by Sajal Kabiraj on May 15, 2008 02:52 PM
Indians choosing to return back to India from the US after serving 10 years there are just mere opportunists who believe in 'Make Hay while the sun shines'. Regarding other Indians who are choosing to stay back in India after completion of their graduation are another set of opportunists who are comparing salaries, lifestyle, family and workstyle in India and abroad and then choose to stay back in India after weighing all possible options. Sincere Regards, Dr. Sajal Kabiraj, Post Doctoral Fellow, PhD, MS, MBA, BChem Engg
Why IIT's and IIM's only, there is No shortage of new Talent and millionaires in India. Young millionaires from Reliance, TATA, Cognizant, Infy, Wipro, Satyam,HCL, HP,IBM, Tier-B Business schools MBA and Enginers Salaries matchs the US, $50-60k/yr for an average 10 year old experience programmer or Manager. Starting salaries for 22 year old IT programmer and MBAs even from tier-B business schools are in the 6-10 lakh rupee and go up by 20-40% a year after that. A sizable amount of Indian population 400 Million will be moving into the middle class. As more people gain access to education and get integrated into domestic demand/supply and country GDP.
RE:There is No shortage of new Talent in India.
by shibu james on May 15, 2008 01:33 PM
Valid & good post. India is expanding & maturing. It doesnt seek capability in only IITs & IIMs. There is no dearth of talent here. Probably IIT & IIMs will be at a disadvantage in the NEW INDIA.
RE:There is No shortage of new Talent in India.
by Agent Provocateur on May 15, 2008 01:41 PM
Boss the salaries in the US tier B (as you say) even in this severe recession is in the region of USD 100K. Indian B schools can never match it.
RE:There is No shortage of new Talent in India.
by Dude on May 15, 2008 03:20 PM
Agent Provocateur your rite. Any way Tier B yea A. they have live with gr8 Indian Infrastructure. LOL
All people are blaming IIT grads for not being in India and fleeing to abroad.
For all those people I want to tell you one thing.
Do you know about Lok Paritran ? Its a party formed by six IIT grads from Bombay and Kanpur. The President of the party is a grad from IIT and a Masters from a Well known university in US. They left their job offers for the sake of cleaning the political system in India.
How many of you will do like this ? Just for the sake of discussion you can tell what ever you want. Only Action speaks.
RE:IIT grads are doing good to India
by sunil m on May 15, 2008 01:25 PM
do not tell us how good u have done to us. What u have done is best for you and your family. I dont blame you for doing that.In process you have proven to west that that brown colored folks have brains equal to that of white folks. But dont expect us us to be indebted to you
RE:IIT grads are doing good to India
by apocalypto on May 15, 2008 01:29 PM
Brown coloured folks have brains equal to white coloured folks but they dont know how to use it. Thats the problem.
RE:IIT grads are doing good to India
by Umesh on May 16, 2008 12:21 AM
In India 80 % people can work but ramaining 20% will not allow those 80% to work. In west 20% people work & remaining 80% will not disturbed them but enjoy.
RE:IIT grads are doing good to India
by PUNIT KAPADIA on May 15, 2008 01:25 PM
who is telling to do something of this..... these iit'ns might not have the calibre of being a political party worth knowing.... politics is very different ball game...especially in india.. ask them to use thier resources in some worthwhile field...
RE:IIT grads are doing good to India
by apocalypto on May 15, 2008 01:27 PM
Just because of people like you, party with good motive like Lok paritran won't survive in the long run.
Simple Reasons... No nonsense 1. Immigration rules are tougher now. 2. Big Indian companies like TCS,WIPRO,INFY force you to sign bonds not to leave company on international assignment 3. Opportunities in India have improved 4. Rest of world is also interested in moving towards west. So there is now less room for Indians
RE:Useless timepass
by sunil m on May 15, 2008 01:17 PM
Also... When you are in a western corporation you feel like the white folks there gang up against you. Although u perform best among collegues you are generally ignored when it comes to promotions. Soon u realize your skin color is brown. U miss ur family and frnds
RE:Useless timepass
by shibu james on May 15, 2008 01:19 PM
Thats crying boo boo. To say that Indians do not make ti to top of organizations is wrong. Indra Nooyi, Ashok Sarin are great examples.
RE:Useless timepass
by sunil m on May 15, 2008 01:28 PM
1 in 6 person in world is a Indian. I am not sure 1 in six CEOs is a Indian. 1 in 6 rich person is a Indian. 1 in 6 top managers is a Indian. So dont brag on what lucky few has achieved
RE:Useless timepass
by shibu james on May 15, 2008 01:31 PM
How about 1:1000000 in the world is an Indian with a college background. Now lets compare the odds. Dude grow up.
RE:RE:Useless timepass
by sunil m on May 15, 2008 01:54 PM
Re-investigate on stats. only 1:4 new generation whites are with college background. India produces more engineers then whole of Europe. No Indian degree is recognised in full form in west. So Rethink.. Its actually a turf war. White folks are trying to save their turf. Those(non-white) who can fight are still there, rest are going back.
RE:Useless timepass
by shibu james on May 15, 2008 01:17 PM
5. They suck on soft skills. Their career gets stunted pretty soon, so they come back to India to life of their IIT "status"
While most of the reasons bandied about here are of some cognizance, they are none the less not the pivotal one. The pivotal reason is this that guys from IIT & IIMs stagnate after a period in time in the US. i.e if they do not have a MBA/MS degree from the IVY LEAGUE colleges. The most these guys can aspire to reach is the middle management levels of US corps without a degree from the top universities.
While a degree from IIT/IIM guarantees a good placement (read cheap labour) in terms of dollar salary, they do not help in career progression in the US & Europe. Some of these guys go on to get additional qualifications and progress, rest retire to India where their qualifications guarantee them "IVY LEAGUE" status.
This brings us to the question - are Indian top league educational institutions sub par to the top institutions globally. The answer sadly is YES. While Indians are good at technical skills, its only this aspect that is reinforced in these premier institutes. Business & enterprise requires others skills like interpersonal skills, entrepreneurship, team skills, risk assessment etc which sadly is not our forte, neither do our college incubate.
Ofcourse the assessment does not speak for every individual case, however generally this holds true.
The the case of reverse brain drain is only a case of unfullfilled aspiration meeting opportunity in India.
RE:Reverse brain drain - the most important variable
by Agent Provocateur on May 15, 2008 01:39 PM
IIT K, IIM B, Stanford. The grapes are very sweet. Just that I realized the fault & got it amended. IIT was great in terms of technical mastery. The only benefit of IIT & IIM was the peer group. While standford was an experience, faculty, students was so much more evolved & mature.
RE:Reverse brain drain - the most important variable
by Agent Provocateur on May 15, 2008 01:23 PM
A very pertinent observation. Most IIT & IIM grads I have known are nerds great on quantum skills but pathetic on interpersonal skills. Their leadership skills are zero. There are ofcourse a few Indians who are great on soft skills. Business requires soft skills combined with hardskills. The sweet spot needs to be met. You just cant fit round balls in square pegs. EQ is more important today than IQ.
RE:Reverse brain drain - the most important variable
by shibu james on May 15, 2008 01:27 PM
precisely my point agent. We in India are so focussed on the quantum skills & measure our worth based on quantum skills that there leaves no scope for a well rounded leadership development possiblity. This is Not to say we do not have good leaders, however all these leaders are folks that have gotten out or broken through this viscious corset. Your analogy of fitting a round ball in a square peg is very pertinent. Its like capability in India is a square peg. Only people who fit in these square pegs are intelligent & worth while. Rest rounds, triangles, trapezoids, oblongoids are all worthless. Its the education system & the "squares" that define it.
Are we just pseudo intelligents or do we really think that we know so much to comment on almost everything under the sun. Or is it our frustrations that just come out no matter if its blasts, cricket, or this issue of brain drain. Do we ever question ourselves before asking these ques, "What have we done" or we also follow that easy route of "its always easy to talk".
IITians abroad have done a great deal buddy, perhaps its because the efforts of some of these fellows that India is now a force to reckon with. And as per as what they have done for India, there's something called AID (Association for India's Development) which has over 40 chapters in US, all doing tremendous work. Agar aap utna bhi kar lo to desh ki haalat sudhar jaaye. I can quote many examples here buddy, but I dont think there's any point.
Sitting in the comforts of one's house, all we do is write hate mssgs on rediff, spit venom and vent out our frustrations. Life is too short for negative thoughts my dear friend, if u are so concerned about how the country is moving, stop cribbing about others over here and get into action.
And one last thing, hate wont lead us anywhere, our past proves how vulnerable we are to divide and rule philosophy, so better have some faith and learn how to stick for one another.
RE:What a constructive talk
by shibu james on May 15, 2008 12:42 PM
Whoa .. why so much frustratation dude. Lets not talk about some incongruous & unknown society. No one person or society or individual is responsible for the state of India (good or bad) Who & what are you addressing with your post.
RE:What a constructive talk
by geela parul on May 15, 2008 12:47 PM
shibu, this is a very relevant message...why not browse through...if you have enough time and you will get what he is saying..... Not ..sooo cool dud....
RE:What a constructive talk
by timepass on May 15, 2008 12:46 PM
Yes, I question myself "what have I done" and the answer is always 1000 times more than most IIT-ans. And expressing my views is a democratic right, u can't stop me. I genereally point out the truth, and to the useless folks it pinches. IITans are no more special than an avg 8th grader. In corp. world, tech skills get you to certain stage but social and soft skills play greater role. All these asssholes have learnt is to study and write exams, best lessons are those learnt from life and you cannot teach them in schools. I work for a Fortune 10 company in a high post, love US, have a blonde wife and have 5 patents. Give me a count of how many IITans live my life? I lose respect for them as they do engineering and then go for MBAs. They cud give up engineering seats for folks who really want to be engineers.
RE:RE:What a constructive talk
by shibu james on May 15, 2008 12:55 PM
Fortune 10, High post, blonde wife, 5 patents .. & you have time to bandy about on rediff. WOW
RE:What a constructive talk
by timepass on May 15, 2008 12:58 PM
Yep, blogging is my passion. Another hallmark of being non-IITan, I enjoy life, sweetheart. ;)
RE:What a constructive talk
by Neeraj Mendiratta on May 15, 2008 01:00 PM
Stop BSing timepass... Not sure what part of your life are you proud of - working for Fortune 10, blonde wife or 5 patents. Any self-respecting person won't mention his wife's race so casually to say, "See I'm better than you cuz I married a gori" - it shows your inferiority complex. Now, IITians vs. non. I know equal number of both sides who have contributed to India and US (and UK). However, it is your inferiroty complex speaking in your post above rather than good things you have done (if you ever did). And oh yeah, I have heard of Fortune 100, 500 AND 1000 never 10. Would you care to name your company? Or let me guess, it is Wal-Mart (#1 in Fortune 500). So you work in Wal-Mart.
RE:What a constructive talk
by timepass on May 15, 2008 01:04 PM
LOL, well, I dont want to sound racist. The reason I mention my wife's race to highlight the point that IITans and most Indians in general are unsocial and that is a primary reason for them not being able to enjoy life in the US. If you do the research, most people who return - not due to lack of opportunities or money in US - but they are frustrated with personal and family life.
RE:What a constructive talk
by geela parul on May 15, 2008 01:14 PM
Excellent point Neeraj..... But if you are saying that a gori married you because you are social.....you are an @sss. She married because she genralized that inidian mem are very devoted, stable job (might be true....if its not walmart), and no divorces...that is it...you are a kiddo...
RE:RE:What a constructive talk
by geela parul on May 15, 2008 12:51 PM
hey timepass...it seems your wife is your trophy.....along with 5 patents...look everybody has a choice.....it is not their fault they got selected.
Most people in IIT are in IIT simply because they cracked an exam at an age where they dont even realize who they are and what they want...late teens.
Many who do not get selected are the ones who have immense passion for engineering but no opportunity.......
Had everybody had got what they aspired to be in this world....we would have explored the SUN till now leave alone the MOON
RE:What a constructive talk
by timepass on May 15, 2008 12:55 PM
"Many who do not get selected are the ones who have immense passion for engineering but no opportunity......."
Are you saying IIT is the only avenue for engineering in India? There are plenty of great engineers produced by gr8 colleges and lot of them are doing pioneering work in many fields.
RE:What a constructive talk
by shashank chauhan on May 15, 2008 01:10 PM
Very much appreciated my friend, and I hope you will continue to do so. Does that in any way degrade the others who are doing it or for that matter are away from India. I studied at University of Cincinnati, out of about 140 students who joined the university every year, there were only 5 % IITians. Most of these fellows did very well, not just economically but also academically. many of them (not all) also contributed some of their time towards activities devoted at development of the country. Some of them have decided to go back to India as well.
And yes IITians are no wonder humans, some of them are but not all. Given an opportunity majority of us will shine and time and again this has been proved; not all ppl studying at US universities are IITians and yet they do very well.
I think u missed my point of posting this message, we cannever judge for others why someone is doing something. In today's world of globalization we will miss the bus if we decide to sit back home. The very reason we have become suddenly a force to reckon with is that the current generation in USA ia so very comfortable (thanks to the great efforts of the ppl in 60's). This is the time to consolidate on this new found strength rather than bicker and pull each other's leg. Its not in our nature to be happy with success of others but unless we learn how to be proud of ourselves and our fellow countrymen, we will achieve nothg.
RE:What a constructive talk
by timepass on May 15, 2008 01:14 PM
I would agree mate, as long as we remove the IIT tag in these discussions and try to wrongly divert credit for India's success to IITs. Thousands of hard working people from lot of institutes daily create a big impact and favorable disposition of India. IITans need not steal that credit.
RE:RE:What a constructive talk
by geela parul on May 15, 2008 01:21 PM
shashank chauhan...waste of time.......
timepass..is timepass.....he is still bickering with his own identity..he is not comfortable with his looks...kind of guy who is ashamed to introduce his parents...and even at this fastrack age her mother wears a sari....
There are people who are deep academicians and they are unsocial..even americans... europeans...but to show off that here lies your smartness... TIMEPASS......I can show you many people who without having your credentials earn twice of what you earn and brilliant....all staying in India
RE:RE:What a constructive talk
by shashank chauhan on May 15, 2008 01:24 PM
@ Shibu
Buddy no frustration here, and if its thr, its bcos u still carry on being full of hate where as I am trying to put across a msg of joining hands. we dont even know eachother to be either jealous or fighting, we talk of same things, so y not be more rational.
No one person is responsible I agree but then if our country is in a certain state arent we all responsible in some manner. and will talking and pointing fingers on this board help us get rid of our problems.
@ Suraj
Baba to yaar already bahut hain, aur woh bhi jo kar rahe hain humare saamne hai. Wld not like to boast but back in Cincinnati, we used to raise ard $12000 and fund projects back home in India. Most of us were students, taking time out from studies to volunteer at various places in order to raise some money. One of my friend was from IIT, finished his PhD joined a big company in US and within first year started a collaboration with IIT (that is helped fund a project at IIT from his company) thus in his own way contributed towards improving the research at his alma mater. I hope you will agree that this is his contribution, agar hum sab itna bhi kare to bhi bahut kuch kar sakte hain. Point is we dont even do that.
RE:What a constructive talk
by shibu james on May 15, 2008 01:49 PM
Who me? hate .. where have I said any thing that remotely represents hate. Pointing fingers ...??? Dude I am lost .. or are u thats lost.
RE:What a constructive talk
by timepass on May 15, 2008 02:20 PM
Shibu, if u tell an IITan that non-IITans are also doing a lot of good work, they will call u crazy and accuse you of hatred of IITans. What did I tell u abt their social skills?
So why are they not in some Naxal area helping the tribals figh the Naxals? Tow of my school freinds are IIT/IIM and in the villages. Their name never appears here.
RE:What hype for thse losers
by Suraj Singh on May 15, 2008 12:30 PM
So why are they not in some Naxal area helping the tribals fight the Naxals? Two of my school frirnds are IIT/IIM and in the villages. Their name never appears here.
see this in a different way .i guys who are working abroad sussessfully are making name for india in a reverse way.they are the back bone of indian ecomomy.we are conquering the rest of the world through them.we indians back home should support these guys who are iit anf iim pass out to go abroad and be a part of those countries and settle there . they are the best people to represent india .when they return back sussessfully they bring in india money , experience ,and culture which is boosting indian work style. indian companies can go abroad through them and be big mncs this will help indian economy also. take the example of tata and relaince they are looking to expand their bussiness in the rest of the world .it is possible only through these brains who are going abroad. so we cannot say that indian talant going abroad is a brain drain at all.
RE:brain drain is it?
by shibu james on May 15, 2008 12:46 PM
Dude Grow Up. Individual repatriations do not even contribute to 1% of forex inflow. The real contribution is organizations investing in India due to the India Growth story.
RE:brain drain is it?
by shibu james on May 15, 2008 01:02 PM
What intangibles are you talking about? What backhand support? How about tangible things like - 1) better communication systems, 2) better education, 3) rise in disposable income, 4) better health (WHO standards) ....etc these are the major ones thats driving the India story. Not some odd IITian (though I have nothing against them) lobbying the US. Understand the progress the country experienced was during a phase when even onions were banned from export to India (under the nuclear test embargo). Sorry dude you need to be more aware of socio economic factors before trying to be an expert.
