opportunities should be equal for all and based solely on abilities, irrespective of social background, caste, creed, religion or sex.
if any section of the society does not find itself able to compete, then that section shouldbe trained free of cost so that they can compete.
but always any job should only be given to the person who can best do it. any reservation or govt policy that overlooks this criteria is flawed fundamentally.
Re: everybody shud be treated equally
by VIshal on Apr 01, 2009 01:04 AM
A poor high caste person could escape poverty within a generation or two through education or employment, but a Dalit, however willing or determined he was, he couldn’t get admission to a school and hence could not get the means to overcome that poverty. When such a pogrom is carried out on such a mass scale cutting across regions and languages of India to become a highly efficient and well-oiled machine of blatant and flagrant discrimination in the name of caste, it induces a social handicap. That handicap cannot be overcome by scholarships, free admission and free lunches. It has to be tackled much more aggressively by reserving certain seats so that the oppressed can walk in, may be with trepidation and diffidence, to become self-confident over a period of time so as to go back and encourage others from his families to come in trickles and then in hordes to espouse education and employment which they believe is denied to them.
Re: Re: everybody shud be treated equally
by Praveen Budamagunta on Apr 01, 2009 01:50 AM
I agree with you only in one way. If a poor high case person could escape poverty with a genration or two with proper education why cant a Dalit. If a person utilizes reservation and gains education and a good job, why should his childern need that help reservation again? If his childern don’t take the help of reservation and compete with the open competition the people who really need to the help of reservation will be gain from it. If it really happens then tere is no need to increase any reservation quotas Or provide the reservation to dalits, but only to the people who are economically backward. They are real people who really needs the support. But it is not happening in India. Even leader of those communities are not talking about it.They are just utilizing the situation for their political gains. Before I end I request every one who has utilized reservation and has gained good education and a good job ask a question for themselves " Do my family need any reservation now? " and go with the pure inner conscience then they will never ask for increasing the reservation percentages. And if the real leaders of those communities ask the question " Is the existing reservation utilized properly?" then they will not ask to increase the reservation but will think of how best we can utilize the existing reservation
Re: Re: everybody shud be treated equally
by Suresh on Apr 01, 2009 01:28 AM
So, what you mean is 60 years of reservation has not given them the confidence, so what is going to change in the next 60 years. Actually these reservations are good for politican vote bank, rich and influential dalits to get into any institution or job and all the people who cannot get through the regular seats to make use of these reserved seats.
It is not reservation, but a plan to give good, free and compulsory education to all in schools and colleges.
Re: Re: Re: everybody shud be treated equally
by prerana on Apr 01, 2009 02:01 AM
No..it deosnt mean that..it means everyone should come out into the open competition..only then will they also realise their mettle..if you shield them with reservations,they will never know their true potential..they will be sure of getting admissions into engineering and medical colleges using their quota and ignore all the hardwork that needs to be out in..in the end,no one will win from this..if people take admissions based on merit,each and every student will emerge winner from it...
Re: Re: Re: everybody shud be treated equally
by Aqua E on Apr 01, 2009 01:47 AM
So called upper caste sucked for 100 yrs of year and created this discrimation so only we are seeing a huge difference in living standards . Now by giving reservation to so called low caste would give some edge to takle this situation and still UC having trouble in that.. what a shame.
Re: Re: Re: everybody shud be treated equally
by Praveen Rai on Apr 01, 2009 01:56 AM
I agree with both Vishal and Suresh. Social injustice has to be dealt with and India has done so in the last 60 years. Reservation has no place in India today. It's time to let the best and the brightest lead India. Obviously, that doesn't mean that there should be no govt programs to bring up those who have suffered economically for various reasons. Social equality, economic progress should be the right of every citizen. But, the days of free lunches are over and those who are willing to work hard for better life should be the ones with all the opportunities
Re: Re: Re: everybody shud be treated equally
by Jai bhim on Apr 01, 2009 02:06 AM
Suresh, So why don't you fight the corrupt system? you are capable of doing that! Rich and influential dalits, Lolzzzzz, do you want to tell me the reservation system has worked for them :) I think everyone should fight against those so called rich and Influential dalits who are misusing the system and give the benifits of reservation to those who don't have a voice and education.
SV sekhar should have known that having joined AIADMK is like surrendering his soul to a manic depressive.Jaya has lot of health issues and will soon have more.unfortunately the DMK is full of crooks including the main one.TN will see a great deal of change in next 10 years.
if you look at the history of india, you will come to know that a handful of them have corrupted the remaining gullible population and thus the nation using their sharp brains.
these are the forward caste in south india Nair, menon, reddy, naidu, vellama, pillai, mudaliar, chettiar , udaiyar , etc,,. All these are respectd by people.
now the brahmins are not liked in tamilnadu because they were too loyal to british.
Re: Forward caset in south india
by Krish on Apr 01, 2009 03:36 AM
That is non-sense, a canard spread by vested interests. TamilBrahmins had great freedom-fighters including Rajaji and the greatest of them all Subramania Bharathi. And it is falsehood that TN hates brahmins-otherwise we would not see some of the successful actors (superstars included), singers and public figures! But that is not the issue here.
Re: Forward caset in south india
by JGN on Apr 01, 2009 12:33 AM
They were not loyal to any one except for themselves. The cunningness of "tambrams" is the root cause of hatred for all "brahmins" in India. Dewan Sir C.P. Ramaswamy had to flee from Kerala due to the ire of common people.
Re: Re: Forward caset in south india
by Satish Medapati on Apr 01, 2009 12:51 AM
JGN, It is wrong to characterize Brahmins as personality traits are universal. There will be good Hindus (Brahmins including), good Muslims, Good Christians , Good Jews etc and vice versa.Marginalizing one particular community is repeating the same mistake we did some 200-400 years ago. Are we de-learning? Pls apply thought. As someone stated, economic criteria should be case for SCHOOL reservations and higher education should be on MERIT and nothing else.
Re: Re: Re: Forward caset in south india
by Girish Bangalore on Apr 01, 2009 01:11 AM
I agree with Satish.. it is not right to generalise a trait with a group or community. But the problem lies with allowing a group or a community to be hijacked by crooks who now seems to "represent" that community. The entire community now become the implicit supporters of these leaders, if these crooks are allowed to "represent" them. In which case characterisation does not seem wrong. So it becomes the duty of every citizen of the country to get rid of community based, caste based, linguistic based, religion based, region based leaders. Can we do that in India? I doubt that very much.
Re: Forward caset in south india
by VIshal on Apr 01, 2009 01:14 AM
Many in India now argue that reservations should be based on economic status. ‘It’s the poor who should be given reservations, not backward classes’, they argue. This argument is absolutely fallacious and has to be rejected. There are other schemes for poor people, such as free education, free books, scholarships, etc. There are free sops to poor farmers. A poor person irrespective of caste can avail free education, free medication and scholarships in India. That will only solve the economic problems. But that is not going to solve the problems of discrimination-based-on-caste which is so deeply entrenched into our Indian psyche. No matter what the urban, forward classes and elite media want to believe and want us to believe, there are enough examples to show with absolute proof that discrimination based on caste exists in India, more so in rural India where more than 75% of India lives. This discrimination may have been subdued over time, unlike in the older times where it was overt, but it is still palpable in all schemes of things in life. Reservations based on caste is the only solace, the only avenue that tries to provide a fight against that discrimination, trying its best to narrow the divide that engulfed our sub-continent for thousands of years. Anything else is not valid and should be rejected.
Re: Re: Forward caset in south india
by Sriram Rags on Apr 01, 2009 01:38 AM
How do you substantiate that. Reservation has not helped the needy. Instead it has helped only the elite among all castes.
There is no denial that discrimination does exist in India. Infact its not based on caste but based on wealth. TN has been ruled by Dravidian parties for more than 60 years. There has been absolute reservation. It had helped some among the backward classes to use it and come up in life.
But what happens now is people belong to the same caste is discriminating among them. Reason wealth. If you dont have money you will be discriminated.
So reservation based on economic status is the ideal solution. You arguments are mere rhetoric without any facts.
Stop all caste based reservations. Reservations (if any) should be based on economic creteria only. Then the caste system will vanish in 10 years time.
Re: No caste based reservation
by dudehere on Apr 01, 2009 12:53 AM
sadly the votes to that particular party would also vanish... kaangi is coming up with reservations in private companies also....
Don't you think its about time that we Indians get over the caste system. On the one hand we complain about racism in other nations but we ourselves continue to practice caste system. Why? Are we so insecure, that our identity must be tied to our caste? Grow up India, grow up.
Re: Can we get over the caste system?
by JGN on Apr 01, 2009 12:25 AM
It is not indentiy but the clamour for the fishes and loaves of power (reservation).
The OBC in Tamil Nadu. Reservation for low caste and the poor among them is OK. But Brahmin bashing is not OK. Despite descrimination in Tamil Nadu Brahmins have come up well and they have character which others who have come up do not have. Even som eof the educated non brahmins say that. They try to copy Brahmins for culture.
Re: Reservation has helped
by Raja yadav on Apr 01, 2009 12:23 AM
for the last 5000 years tamilnadu has been ruled by tamil dynasties such as chera, chola, pandya and pallava. during those period Brahmins were very poor and performed service in temples to get food. but during the british occupation due to their intelligence they were employed in good administrative postions. so when britishers left the country generally brahmins were hated in tamilnadu due to them serving the british loyally. and thats the reason they are hated in tamilnadu. I beleive brahmins in tamilnadu / south india should be given quota. they live in poor conditions in slums.
Re: Re: Reservation has helped
by Calspadeaspade on Apr 01, 2009 03:55 AM
During British occupation even other forward caste people were employed like Mudaliyars and Chettiayars. Lot them were complete stooges to Brits. Atleast Brahmins had great freedom fighter like Bharathi and Rajaji. Rangoon chettiars were all stooges because they were banyas making money.
